Rex Pickett Interview

Aaron: You really upped up the religious aspect a little bit.
Adam: Especially with Dillon going into like the books he was reading and how he came up with his like amalgamation of a religion.

Rex: As I said earlier in this interview, I read the collective works of Jung. Jung wrote a lot about Christianity and religion, and I’m very much interested in belief systems and faith systems. I’m not religious at all but I’m interested in those things. So it seemed to me that if they’re there and they’ve taken a vow of celibacy and everything else, that they’re out on a planet floating around. It’s a penal colony with no hope of ever getting back anywhere, they have to have a belief system. Then I wanted to invent one that had would have a rich iconography.

Honestly and that would also make just make their lives and their world interesting. Let’s bring you into this world that’s interesting, that’s different and then when the Alien starts to make… you feel like these people’s worlds are upturned and you care about them. I know it sounds corny. I’m not trying to make people likeable but I’m trying to make you care about people and you care about people who have points of view, who have a difference of opinion than other people. These are all basic tenets of screenwriting, but they are not always easy to do. From a writing standpoint though, I thought it was fairly easy.

My imagination just went to these characters, and I tried to imagine that world if I were on that world and I was adhering to some sort of theocratic idea or whatever. What would that theocratic idea be? We’re in the future. I can invent a whole new religion if I want and you’re saying Adam, I sort of semi-did and David was on board. That was all probably done in the nine days. That’s where the real work was done was in those nine days. Bear in mind, nine days that sounds like a miracle, but I probably been thinking about it for a couple months leading up to flying me over there. I mean Taxi Driver was written in 10 days and won an Oscar, but he lived it for a year.

I don’t think it’s a great script but it’s a great directing. It’s a great score by Bernard Herman and of course de Niro is brilliant in it. But you can write a script pretty fast if you have it in your head. By having those boundaries of this scene and this scene and this scene, it’s not how I would want to work but if you’re going to mandate those and you’re going to pay me $10,000 a week and give me £1500 in nice big bills with the queen on it.

I come out there and they officially hire me, and I’ve got a Jaguar coming to my place. I don’t know where it was and I can’t remember Kensington or whatever but driving me out to Pinewood Studios, I felt like kind of a big shot but the end of the day, none of that matters to me. I don’t care about money and agents and all that other stuff. I really, and to this day, I care about the work and that’s all Fincher cares about is the work. He doesn’t care about the lifestyle at all, but the studio politics got the better of our ideas. They went back to this very dumbed down version of Larry Ferguson’s problematic script.

Adam: Have you had a chance to look at the screenplay of yours that’s out there because I’m curious to know like if this was near the end of your time developing it with Fincher or if this was a little earlier in in the process? Like how far beyond this draft had it gone?

Rex: That would have been the last draft we did [January 5^th].  I was removed right about that time so that would have been probably my final draft. I remember I showed it to… at the time I didn’t have an agent. I had an attorney do the deal. When I came back, I was looking for an agent of course, I was one of the writers on [Alien 3] so that’s a nice calling card I guess on some level and so I sent the draft out.

But with that disclaimer, it’s funny that also got sent around because the disclaimer shows that I had had access to early drafts of the script which probably also angered Hill and Giler, especially Hill that I had access to his drafts of the script and I did. There’s no question about it. I mean I can say it now because there’s nothing punitive. I mean I don’t think it’s like a felony or anything. I mean scripts get passed around all the time, but they definitely went behind Hill and Giler’s back to get them to me. So, I think that disclaimer said something in there… one of them and some people… I don’t know there was something in the press about it or something.

Aaron: Do you remember much about what Fincher brought to your draft while you were working on it with him, aside from the attempt to bring in the stages of…?

Rex: I think I said to David… because as you can tell, I’m intellectual I guess but I said “David, it’s a monster movie.” I said but I did try to bring some depth of the character, but you don’t want to force that issue. You don’t want to impose heaviness on a screenplay. It comes from inside. It’s either there or it’s not. So, I try to bring it from inside. David’s real strength was really in in the action sequences. He had them very storyboarded and I remember being in his office and him taking me through those storyboards and they were very elaborately drawn. I have to admit his focus really was on those big action sequences.

I think one of the reasons he stayed on the film, aside from the fact that he didn’t want to be known as the guy in Hollywood who was fired or Fox would spin it. But I think he really did see those action sequences and really wanted to shoot them. He really wanted to do them. I think when it came to story and character development, David just left it up to me. Look at what he’s done in his career over 30 years. He doesn’t have a writing credit ever.

I’m sure now David, he’s more narrative driven, especially when you see Mank which was written by his father oddly enough. I’m sure he gets involved like this scene drags on too long or we need to punch up the conflict here. But I don’t remember any of those conversations on Alien 3. I don’t remember those. That’s the stuff I knew. You have to bear in mind I’d written and directed two feature films. Barbara had produced two feature films which I had written and directed.

I knew way more about… he didn’t know anything about dramatic film writing at all. He knew nothing about it, and I don’t say that to damn him with faint praise or anything like that. It’s just the truth. He was a music video director when they hired him and the biggest in Hollywood at that time. I don’t think it’s really true today. A lot of people came out of there and the studio figures “You know what, they’re great visual stylists because we need that from a director, and we’ll figure out the screenplay for them.” I think that division of labor was there, and I think that David really kind of left the characters up to me.

I think he would have been critical if it was something he didn’t like. So, I remember he really was bringing stuff about the action sequences. Maybe tightening the screws down on certain scenes but I mean with David, he’ll probably hate me for saying this, I’ve seen him in a room scream at people. I mean in a small room at the top of his voice, but he never screamed at me. Never. He treated me with unbelievable respect, and he treats writers with real respect, but I think when he gets on the set, he has to be more of a general and you know why? Because they’ll walk all over you, and you won’t get your way.

I’m not endorsing that and I’m sure he’s a great guy really. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. He’s really a great guy but he treated me with unbelievable respect and the risk he took to bring me out there. He saw that what I was bringing to the script was the kind of character development that it required from the one that I’m coming off on and I’m coming off of the script. So, I’m constrained by these things and that actually is a help to me.

In a way knowing that I was constrained by set piece scenes that couldn’t be changed because they’re already… tunnels were built and there’s stuff that was already done and what am I going to do? Throw them out and they’re going to build all new sets? That just was never going to happen. I think also Fincher knew too that Rex has made film. He knows film. Maybe not big studio sci-fi special effects films but he knows film. He knows filmmaking and he had respect for that. So did Barbara. She knows a lot about film and filmmaking. We spent 10 years making two films. So, to answer your question. I don’t remember any heavy discussions about narrative and character.

Adam: Well one of the things we’re curious about too is what if you didn’t have those constraints right? I know there were some constraints with sets being built and such but if you had total creative control with the writing, can you think of anything else significant that you would have changed about the story?

Rex: Again, I’d have to go back and look at the script, but I honestly don’t think there would have been a lot. I remember now it’s coming back to me. I remember really enjoying creating those factions in the prisoner colony because I really felt like I was almost getting at society today between different parties. We don’t want to get into politics here and different religions and stuff. So here it was in kind of a microcosmic form on this planet, and I think I was playing on these divisions in that we have in society today. Imagine on a planet like that…

I mean you could have a riot and one group ideologically wipes out another group and that’s kind of where we are today even at this very moment in the world. These are basic human needs is wanting to have a belief system and Christianity doesn’t do it for us anymore for the most part. So, people trying to have belief systems and they’re all based on one thing which is really what happens when you die, and I think it comes from you. I don’t think there would have been much I would have changed to be honest with you, Adam. I really went inside and tried to… if I didn’t have the constraints, I mean it might not have been prisoners on another planet it, might have been a whole new population of people.

I don’t know what it would have been but in a in a weird way because it was such a short stint and I write very fast when I have ideas. I think I actually enjoyed the constraints. I think they made my life easier. So, okay there’s going to be this set piece scene. There’s going to be this big scene at the end with Ripley and whatever and how do I build to that credibly and that’s what I’ve always tried to do. There’s a word I use a lot because I give talks on writing and stuff is very similitude, the ring of truth. Yes, it’s sci-fi so there’s suspension of disbelief and you got a monster but how can I make it credible? How can I make these people real and that’s what I’ve always tried to do is make characters real and people to this day.

Aaron: I think one of the often-critical complaints was “Why would we give a sh*t about a bunch of bald pommies running around some tunnels that we don’t even know the names of.” I think that was one of them the big criticisms.

Rex: I agree and I’m not saying my script would have won Academy Awards or anything, but I know that at least I tried to make you care about those characters. Golic, Dillon, some of the administrators I didn’t like. I can’t remember their names now.

Aaron: It’s funny you say that because Ralph Brown who played Aaron in the film. He’s very outspoken about his time on the film as well and he talks about the draft him being given. Aaron is this competent heroish kind of guy and then suddenly he finds another script in his hand where he’s a moron and jokes being made at his expense and I’m fairly sure that script that he talks about is yours.

Rex: Yeah, it was. In fact, Brown… Barbara and I, the place we were living at in Kensington or whatever, he took our place. We handed him the keys. We left and he came. That was fun and I said, “Have you read my script?” And he just gotten off a plane. I said “You should really read my script. They’re going back to the original. It’s really bad.” I remember saying that kind of almost… and it was really not because I wanted to stay on, I wanted a credit or whatever.

It’s just because I just couldn’t believe they were going back to that script. I’ve read a lot of screenplays that have gone into production. Because I’m always interested in what’s going into production and or what even is a hot script that’s being bought for a lot of money. Honestly the Hill-Giler script. Especially they’re coming off another script. Rewriting isn’t that hard to do guys is the most amateurish, the worst script I’ve ever read in my entire life of a film going into production.

I mean at that high level, they’d already had eight writers getting six figures. I think it’s my understanding that 5 million was spent on screenplays and Rex Pickett only got 40,000. That’s all I got. They got me for cheap, but they spent millions until they finally got what they wanted. He’s a smart guy and I’m sure he just saw “My god this is dribble. It’s just pure dribble.”

Adam: So, you mentioned coming off a previous script. I don’t know if you’ve read the final shooting script that they had. The one that was really only like nine days after yours, I think. Do you feel they adapted some of your material into that one?

Rex: Back then I was part of the arbitration, and I might have looked… I think I remember I threw my hat in the ring on the arbitration. I had no hope, but I was legitimately hired by 20th Century Fox and whatever. So that’s all a matter of record. I remember I did look at that script. It’s a long time ago and if they did use anything, I remember thinking I don’t have a great case in this arbitration. You could contrast and compare because you have both drafts.

You could do an exegesis. I didn’t just work four or five weeks with David before I was canned because of Hill’s ego but also that was the two weeks that I did the complete or nine days where I did the rewrite. But also, everything leading up to that from Vincent Ward and I was getting every Larry Ferguson draft. He did two drafts in his four weeks that he was there. I mean I was really primed for this. I trained to be ready if I got the call. I’ve seen the whole evolution of this thing and I kind of remember with Barbara which is like “My god the incompetence at such a high level. Is it possible?”

William Gibson, I haven’t read his stuff. I mean that guy’s an acclaimed science fiction writer but for whatever reason the studio didn’t like his draft and they went to the next writer. Trust me Gibson would have gotten at least back then 300,000-400,000 for sure. He’s a celebrated science fiction writer.

Adam: Personally, when I first saw Alien 3, I didn’t exactly like it that much but eventually they did have an alternate cut which is known as the assembly cut which came out with the blu-ray set and this was worked on by Charles de Lauzirika who did all the behind-the-scenes material. I believe he reached out to Fincher to see if Fincher wanted to collaborate with him on this assembly cut but Fincher just didn’t have any interest in revisiting it at all.

Rex: That blows me away, Adam because an assembly cut which we might also call a director’s cut too. That’s another reason why Fincher was fired or quit or whatever is because they were probably demanding he cut it a certain way. Why would you want to go back and look at that footage again? Why would you want to go relive this horrible experience? He’d lived with it for so long he knew that even if you go back in there and you make it better, I think he just thought I’m gonna cut my ties here.

It’s kind of like a bad marriage. Move on and if you if you cling to that person in the past, you’re not going to open the door to the next person who’s coming to you who might really change your life and for Fincher, it was Seven. I think that is a terrific film. I think the acting is great. Fincher’s direction is just brilliant. He just wants to distance himself from that film. “I did everything I could. I’m done. I don’t want to hear about assembly cuts.” He hasn’t done another Alien. He’s tried not to repeat himself if you look at his career. He’s tried to do different things in his career. Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t think he’s really done sci-fi.

Aaron: Well, this has been absolutely fascinating and enlightening and to go from just knowing two things about your time on the film which is you pissed off Hill and Giler with your memo. People actually blame Sigourney for your removal from the film actually with it being here using an option from a contract to get Hill and Giler back.

Rex: I don’t buy that, but the truth of the matter is like I said, Sigourney is in Hill and Giler’s pocket so they’re using her as the fulcrum to get rid of me. I promise you that Sigourney never read my script ever. She never read it. I never got to meet her, and Barbara met her a number of times and said she was an absolutely wonderful, lovely person. She was already a coming star but definitely Alien really took her to another level. She could carry a film.

Think about that as a woman, to carry a film and so she’s got a lot of power and if she thinks Hill and Giler were the ones who made that possible, even though they didn’t write the script, Dan O’Bannon did but maybe they were involved in the casting. I don’t know. I’m sure Ridley Scott… he’s big so he was very involved in it too. She felt she owes them a debt. She’s gonna default to them, not to Rex Pickett. I don’t think she saw it. It’s funny they say memo because I actually thought it was a very well written document. It’s in my archive somewhere and I was trying to find it.

I couldn’t find it. I don’t know if it’s out there at all. It’s quite an incendiary tract because I just tell it like it is and so I did in a letter with all my powers of words or whatever. Tim Zinnemann before he was fired, he thought it was a brilliant analysis of a script that wasn’t working. He’s the one who ultimately got me fired but he’s the one who actually got me hired because he supported Fincher because he’s a studio guy. He supported Fincher and bringing me on.

Aaron: So once again we’d just like to thank Rex Pickett for taking the time to come and give us that very frank and enlightening accounting of his time working on the film. We talk about it being this film that people understand appreciate a lot more nowadays. A lot of people still hate it and quite rightfully. A beautiful disaster was it but a disaster, nonetheless. To actually hear from somebody who it might have only been a month, but it was a hell month that stuck about in in Rex’s mind and so yeah it was really enlightening to actually get to hear first-hand from somebody who experienced that.