And is that necessarily a bad thing? We have just uploaded the 40th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy podcast (right-click and save as to download)! This latest episode sees RidgeTop host a conversation between himself, Xenomorphine and I about the current state of the expanded universe – more specifically is Fox trying too hard to create a Marvel-esque EU and is that a bad thing?
The latest episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast sees RidgeTop host a conversation between himself, Xenomorphine and I about the current state of the expanded universe – more specifically is Fox trying too hard to create a Marvel-esque EU and is that a bad thing?
I take the time to have a gripe about all the retconing that has been taking place lately (even I can’t stomach the sounds of the new Predator prequel coming out!) and we ponder about all the attempts at trying to connect the expanded universe to one another. I will also apologise as I was ill at the time of the recording so I don’t sound my usual charming self.
You can also listen to any of our previous episodes in the Podcast section under the News tab on the main menu. What did you think of the latest episode and about the recent expanded universe releases? Let us know down below! Thanks for listening.
Depends how Covenant plays.
That's really pretty cool, I think I have AvP #0 laying in a box somewhere but didn't realise it was a compilation. I have a vague memory of Predators chilling out at a table and lots of narration.
Predators drinking mead and such, I now want a movie where Predators are the inspiration for Norse mythology. If we're going to have a Marvel-esqu Cinematic Universe then we can have PredaThor!
Technically titled Aliens, but showed a Queen laying eggs on a Predator ship. DHP 34-36 was collected into AvP #0.
ROFL at the name man
Wasn't that a solo Aliens story? I haven't read it and I'm not saying you're wrong, but it would be cool just for general posterity if we could get a screenshot of the crossover.
The first true AvP comic, as far as I can tell, was in Dark Horse Presents #36 in February 1990. Still before the first AvP comic book.
The comics go further back to Dark Horse Presents #34 in November 1989.
I think I enjoyed Sea of Sorrows the most out of that trilogy. It felt like the old EU to me. Still had some issues with it - pacing grinding to a halt in the middle, a few too many throw-away characters and again, a forced relation to Ripley but I still enjoyed it. I didn't hate any of the initial trilogy, I thought they were all solid reads but I did take issue to with some key aspects of them.
First AvP Comic = June 1st 1990
Predator 2 = November 19th 1990
Huh, 5 months apart with AvP coming first. Honestly thought Predator 2 was an 80s movie for some reason. Ah well, the more you know! Thanks
Never said it wasn't a joke.
But alas, different companies puts out that fire of hope that lore from a new Blade Runner could flesh out the Universe. >_<
So yeah, the correlations could be drawn closer to Star Wars rather than the Marvel Cinematic Universe. AvP and AvP:R is a thing, but we won't really know until Covenant if there's a chance in hell of them still being canon.
Prometheus
Alien prequel Trilogy
Alien Quadrilogy
We need a new AvP movie that follows the lore of the universe, a USCM solo movie or a new movie following a different story all together in the same universe for it to really be Marvel-esque.
Granted. However, that didn't turn out to really be shoehorned. It ended up being very fluid and natural to the story. The retcon - yeah, it was a retcon to what we're presented with on-screen in the SE but it wasn't intrusive or as unlikely as the others, I don't think.
Blame RidgeTop for that one.
But it was literally a "very lightly intentioned joke".
I'm not sure the sighing is helping reinforce anything.
Without Ripley, the crew would have fought harder for the Samson, the lander ship. You're right, it would go off in a different direction after that, that's kind of the whole point of what I was saying... We're going to go in a loop here again because I'm talking about how the story could have worked without her and you're talking about how the exact same end point couldn't be reached without her. You're right, but that's not what I've been talking about.
Sigh... Alien skull, Predator 2, head nod, reference. Joke was in quotation marks because you called the Prometheus Blu-Ray content and Scott's consideration for the name a joke. If you or anyone is offended by that then... Just sigh...
I don't believe Dark Horse regarded their comics as a "joke". Nor do many fans.
For sure; and it's funny on the surface. Keep in mind, there's a very clear issue of Ownership going on there. That 'gag' was largely possible because Dark Horse was in possession of both 'ALIEN' and 'PREDATOR' licences to begin with. Licences both granted by Fox so organising the legal side would have been relatively easy - and inexpensive.
Without that connection of Licencing along with Ownership, the chances of 'ALIENS vs PREDATOR' ever happening would have been severely diminished. You won't see Mickey Mouse's head in a Predator trophy collection without some kind of agreement on the part of both 20th Century and Disney. Now that would be funny.
Things like 'Archie vs Predator' don't happen without a lot of legal leg work behind the scenes. That is, a lot of expensive legal leg work. I sometimes wonder how a comic like that even gets to hit store shelves...
-Windebieste.
Need I remind you, AvP has its' origins in a very similar headnod "joke".
Ripley was shoehorned in, Lebbon did his best but she was still a detriment to the story in my opinion and the story could have been just as good, if not better, without her. They can be cleanly lifted out and yes, the story would change, but she isn't integral, as you put it. The Dog-Alien civilization is interesting without her, the failing ship is interesting without her, the character interaction is interesting without her and the mining facility is interesting without her.
You're quite right there, Warner Bros is doing the Blade Runner movie. We're more likely to have Batman tangle with Replicants than Engineers. Sad, but that's the way of the world.
-Windebieste.
I see, it will be very interesting to see how this all pans out, then.
Personally, I don't see the necessity for it. These properties work well independently. 'Weyland-Tyrell' is conceptually redundant, therfore completely irrelevant, now. There's no reason to an obsolete moniker of that nature is any reason to believe intended continuity any more than Easter Eggs on a DVD/BluRay are intended to connect such universes. They're gags and homages. Does that mean the appearance of the Millenium Falcon in 'Blade Runner' (which is prominently onscreen for several seconds right in front of the viewer as an architectural feature) connects 'Blade Runner' to 'Star Wars'?
To my knowledge ( I may be wrong - wouldn't be the first time. lol.) Scott has never openly stated these Universes are connected. Until that happens, it's all speculation. Besides. These Universes are properties of very, very different owners. The likelihood of them ever dovetailing is near non-existent.
We get the 'AvP' EU simply because 20th Century Fox owns them both. It's why IronMan and Thor can be in the same Universe because Disney owns Marvel. 'Superman vs Batman' is based on characters and situations owned by DC.
'Blade Runner' and 'ALIEN' together in the same Universe is as unlikely as 'Batman vs IronMan' ever happening. The ownership is completely different. Crossover licences such as 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit' are extremely rare. I don't expect Fox and Warner to indulge in such a collaboration. It's just too expensive and risky.
So, different Owners. Different Universes.
-Windebieste.
All of which has been well documented as a joke.
I'm not sure you youthinks that, since I said "You might have had an interesting story without them, but you can't just cleanly lift them out."
[insert condescending rolling eyes smiley]
The inclination is very much there, the Blu-Ray disc was chock full of references to Blade Runner and Ridley Scott innitially wanted to name Weyland Industries Weyland-Tyrell.
http://www.firstshowing.net/2012/does-this-prometheus-easter-egg-hint-at-a-blade-runner-tie-in/
Will they do it? Like I said, Ridley Scott is producer for the upcoming Blade Runner movie, so... Who knows?
That's exactly the point. Methinks you're seeing things as "This is how it was done, thus it couldn't have been different."
There's also the point that no Ripley makes more sense in terms of the greater picture of continuity.
Does the story explain how they opened the shuttle's hatch without disturbing the harpoon gun?
Which is separate to the comic book source material, which was my point. The Civil War storyline depicted in the original comics bares little similarity to how it played out in the Captain America film.
Ripley's presence along with the Narcissus and Ash working at odds to the characters are integral to the story. You might have had an interesting story without them, but you can't just cleanly lift them out. And as such I find some of the 'you didn't need Ripley in that story' criticisms a bit misguided. Without her - it's not the same story, so you kinda do need her.
Why should he start now? Maybe he will tie both series together but I think it's very unlikely. He tends to treat each movie as its own piece of cinematic art form, unnassociated with any of his other movies. Why stop at connecting 'Blade Runner' and 'ALIEN'? Otherwise, why not just connect them all?
Maybe Ripley is descended from Robin of Loxley, after all. lol.
-Windebieste.
Hear hear!
I disagree 100%, but I see where you're coming from. The same characters and situation would have led to an interesting story with or without Ripley. The goals without the Narcissus there would be different but the exact same story beats could have been followed without Ripley. But that's not a discussion for here.
Indeed. Going along a MCU style would be closer to what Fire and Stone/Life and Death are up to in the comics but with somewhat connected stand alone Alien-Predator-Prometheus-AvP movies coming out fairly regularly.
"NO RETCONS AND SHOEHORNING!
EXCEPT FOR ISOLATION!!! MORE OF THAT, LESS OF EVEYRTHING ELSE!!"
No it wouldn't. It would've needed to be a different story.
As for the title of the podcast - it's misnamed. What Fox is doing isn't Marvel-esque. Marvels comics and the films based on them wildly differ, and are separate continuities. What Fox is doing is trying to is what Star Wars did with it's EU - trying to make the films and EU as cohesive as possible.
Blade Runner had its own version of Weyland-Yutani (aside from Tyrell) called the Shimata-Dominguez Corporation. That's the company who was advertising the off-world colonies on that futuro blimp over LA.
I wouldn't mind a reference to them as a competitor to Weyland-Yutani.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67.tinypic.com%2F347b48m.png&hash=bdc454ed8da3c3b3a6a1d9e36db5e00eb44c7fcb
Found it: http://www.scified.com/topic/24216
Blade Runner with the Alien/Predator EU? No way.
The problem was it couldn't tell that story for fear of stepping on Prometheus 2's toes. It was the wrong story to tell because they couldn't do anything with it. They should have done something completely different.
Agreed. Thankfully Alien seems to be moving away from it now. The Rage Wars was completely different with nothing new. Defiance, despite the small cameos by Amanda, is moving off and doing its own thing. I still feel like Amanda may be introduced for an arc down the line that serves as an Isolation 2 though.
I'm gonna read it and I'm going to try and go in with an open mind but ... What is even the point?
I disagree here. In my opinion, F&S had a great story to tell that was hampered by trying to fit everything together instead of focusing on the Black Goo Biome and survival with Aliens in the wild. They had so many great ideas that ended up going nowhere because each player had to have a chance to hold the ball.
This is the big issue here, the face-hugged elephant in the room. They're saying "This is popular! Put this in!" and it just convolutes everything. Ripley served zero purpose in Out of the Shadows, the story still would have worked without her. As much as I liked Sea of Sorrows, Decker's connection to Ripley and the Alien picturing her as "The Enemy" and thus imprinting that onto Decker was equally unnecessary. I haven't read River of Pain yet but, from what I hear, it flies in the face of established lore.
An Aliens Cinematic Universe would be amazing, and Fox needs to realize that a Universe is massive. Not everything needs to connect directly and they certainly don't need to retcon things that have been established.
As for the Predator novel... I don't even have words.
My issues are with the retcons and shoehorning elements into that. There was no need for Ripley in Out of the Shadow, there was no need for Colonial Marines in River of Pain and while I can't really judge the Predator prequel thing, I really don't see any need for that proposed story.
Not much to add other than I like the new EU mostly. I enjoiyed fire and stone but l&d isn't doing much for me. Defiance has been amazing. However I have only listened to the "out of the shadows " audio drama, I have not read any of the new books.
Out of the shadows left a bad taste for me and haven't been to keen to pick up the other books anyway. The covers don't help.
And they are making the most concerted effort to try and make everything work together, more than any other time in the franchise's history.
This is entirely separate to 'Fox should just make a good movie' however.
I for one welcome our new expanded universe overlords.
#VickersTheReplicant
Imagine a game (or movie) where the now crew of 3 pick up Amanda and continue to different space stations, shipyards, planets trying to eradicate the Alien from spreading. A game where you can take control of Davis the android as well and run some missions with him/it and the other different characters.
Damn that would be awesome...
Personally, I don't care a great deal what Fox does with EU/world-building in other media as long as the movies are quality.
The publishing and licensing arm don't have anything to do with making films.
DisLike, I meant his dislike of AVP
I've been saying the EXACT same thing about the new Disney Star wars fking around and completely screwing up years of continuity just for the sake of giving us what they think fans want. And this fkin rebooting shyte, it's not really smart. Talk about diluting your franchise.
And yes 100% agree what is worse is using the same old characters and events all the time in the new stories. As if they are not smart enough to make up new events and characters etc.
That's why I like Defiance and Alien isolation. Anyways great podcast, really happy you guys think this way, have to have another listen to this or two, or 3.
Hey, all we can do is try after all.