AVP: part of the canon, or a separate universe?

Started by DUB1, Aug 27, 2014, 05:03:14 PM

Author
AVP: part of the canon, or a separate universe? (Read 29,034 times)

The Old One

The Old One

#45
I've read pages and pages of posts like yours, for years and yours- it's still incorrect.

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=60606.0

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=57409.330

TurokSwe

Quote from: The Old One on Feb 01, 2019, 09:53:54 PM
I've read pages and pages of posts like yours, for years and yours- it's still incorrect.

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=60606.0

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=57409.330

So you're unable to refute my statements then? Alright.

SM

The Alien universe = Peter Weyland created Weyland Corporation and David created the Alien.

AvP uses Corporation and Industries as interchangeable terms.  And since the company already existed there would be no need for Peter to create a new one.  Additionally one of Weyland's prime motives in AvP is leaving a legacy - he forgot he had a genius for a son?

Fox does not consider Alien and AvP to be a shared universe.  At least right now.  Predator and AvP however do seem to be shared.

yhe1

AVP and AVPR are a separate universe, but Predators do exist in the peter weyland universe per fire and stone.

Samhain13

Samhain13

#49
Are we sure Fire and Stone is still canon?

yhe1

I think Hicks just said so two days ago.

Samhain13

That's good enough for now.

TurokSwe

TurokSwe

#52
I'll just repeat what I said before, then you may attempt to refute it;

Honestly, I feel it's obvious that Fox considers these franchises and every single installment - from Alien (1979), Aliens (1986), Predator (1987), Predator 2 (1990), Alien 3 (1992), Alien Resurrection (1997), Alien vs. Predator (2004), Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem (2007), Predators (2010), Prometheus (2012), Alien: Covenant (2017), to The Predator (2018) - to be canonical to each other, they simply act in a manner of continuity similar to the Marvel Cinematic Universe where there are crossovers and separate storylines but they all ultimately take place within the very same fictional (and profitable) universe.

It began with Dark Horse Comics first suggesting the concept of the shared universe in 1989 (and had been expanding upon it ever since), and Fox soon officially initiated the concept in 1990 with Predator 2 and the famous Xenomorph skull in the Yautja trophy room, and attempted to produce a feature film throughout the following decade until it was officially cemented together with Alien vs. Predator in 2004 and Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem in 2007, and both films undeniably existing in continuity with both the Alien and Predator films as even openly expressed by the cast and crew behind the films (the directors in particular). Noting that AVPR actually features a Space Jockey skull in the trophy room.

Then in the same vein as Marvel's Iron Man 3, the 2010 release of Predators continued on a separate storyline but still existed within the same continuity as all previous eight Alien/Predator films and even featured several references to James Cameron's Aliens from 1986 (as this film was intended to act as the Predator-equivalent to Cameron's film) and included, as the director revealed, a Xenomorph lower jaw on the Berserker Predator's mask.

The shared universe would also be further expanded upon through various home video releases (such as Alien/AVP/Predator - The Ultimate Annihilation: Nine Movie Collection), video games (notably Aliens vs. Predator from 2010, AVP: Evolution from 2013, and Aliens vs. Pinball from 2016), comic books, novels, boardgames (such as AVP: The Hunt Begins from 2015 and AVP: Unleashed from 2017), and countless other merchandise and events, so Fox clearly has no interest in dissolving the shared universe anytime soon.

Then came Ridley Scott's two prequel films Prometheus in 2012 and Alien: Covenant in 2017 and divided the fanbase further and even though they technically take place within the same universe as the previous nine films (especially when no evident contradictions exists) we don't really speak about these. Although we have to note that the Fire and Stone (2014-2015) and Life and Death (2016-2017) comic books by Dark Horse Comics actually ties together the Alien, Predator, Alien vs. Predator, and Prometheus brands quite explicitly and again confirms continuity, and the events covered in these comics were even acknowledged in the popular Alien: The Weyland-Yutani Report (2014-2016) in the "Company Time Line" section.

Also, to address the common claim that the company histories of Charles Bishop Weyland and Sir Peter Weyland supposedly contradicy each other, I'm going to say that is absolutely false, as there are no contradictions here whatsoever. Charles Weyland formed Weyland Industries sometime around the 1960's or 1970's whereas Peter Weyland was first born on October 1, 1990, and could thus easily be the son of Charles Weyland. Peter's father was after all unnamed and described as a self-taught engineer, which fits with Charles. Interestingly enough, Peter secured a patent for a synthetic trachea on October 1, 2004, and could potentially have cured Charles of his bronchogenic carcinoma (lung cancer), shortly before Charles was declared deceased on October 10, 2004, and it would take eight years before Peter became of age and founded the new Weyland Corporation in 2012, though still keeping the old Weyland Industries intact and the name featured on the corporate website and promotional material for instance.

Peter could simply be understood as having inherited his father's assets and bringing the company back into the spotlight and towards its interstellar destiny (along with Yutani Corporation and the Predator handgun acquired by Miss Yutani from Gunnison, Colorado, in 2004 which aided in the development of such advanced technologies as FTL drives, as according to the directors). Weyland Industries is also mentioned in a Sevastolink terminal in the 2014 video game Alien: Isolation and Weyland Corporation is featured on the main meny of the 2013 video game AVP: Evolution.

However I'm certainly not the first to suggest this. Alien Theory further elaborates on this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkc4_9YIqI0

Further addressing another common claim that the synthetic David supposedly created the Xenomorphs in Alien: Covenant and thus setting up a supposed contradiction with the AVP films featuring Xenomorphs on Earth in 2004, this is not actually made clear in the movie itself, but it leaves such an issue up to interpretation. However, this is cleared up in the official novelization by Alan Dean Foster (who not only wrote the first three Alien novelizations but also wrote a tie-in novel to the film titled Alien: Covenant - Origins), where David elaborates and states quite clearly that he did in fact NOT create the Xenomorphs, but the Engineers (Space Jockeys) actually did, and David merely used what they had already created, including the black goo pathogen and pre-existing Ovomorphs (that is Xenomorph eggs), to create his own variants of these star beasts or "perfect organisms". Prometheus itself showed that Xenomorph-like creatures are very easily produced through the black goo, and this substance has seemingly existed for billions of years, giving more than enough time for Xenomorphs to be produced several times, and even if it were true that David was the ultimate creator of the Xenomorphs, you still could not rule out time travel (but we clearly don't need to go there).

Noting further that if the very existence of AVP/AVPR and the Predator films for that matter weren't enough to prove that David didn't create the Xenomorphs, then perhaps the home video release of Prometheus would change your mind with its inclusion of Peter Weyland's log "Quite Eye" which quite clearly states that the company already detected the distress signal from the crashed Derelict ship (containing all those Ovomorphs) on LV-426 before the events of Prometheus/Covenant (and it would be consistent with Captain Dallas' assessment of the Space Jockey pilot being fossilized and implied to be ancient). Even the now-defunct online MU/TH/UR 6000 interface on the Alien Universe website had classified information on such topics as Predators/Yautja.

Then of course came The Predator in 2018 and further confirmed that the shared universe indeed still remains intact, with several references to Alien vs. Predator from 2004 such as Lex's spear which the Scar Predator made out of a Xenomorph's tail, as well as references to the Alien films such as the alternate endings which were approved, produced, and filmed featuring Ripley and Newt (which would seemingly suggest time travel technology and thus set up the arrival of Neill Blomkamp's Alien 5 and allow for his film and Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection to exist simultaneously).

After all, Fox is sitting on a real goldmine with the shared universe (if only they could handle it better), and they may indeed still be interested in going forward with AVP3 (as even Shane Black would suggest), especially now that they won't let Scott make any more Alien films after his recent failures. Personally, I completely acknowledge the shared universe as canon (not to mention how silly, petty, and unnecessarily confusing it would be to suggest some films takes place in some alternate universe), and I'm very welcoming of continuing to expand this shared franchise, especially seeing as I grew up with it and still loves it to death. Anyway, we'll see where it all goes from here on under the new rule of Disney.

The Old One

The Old One

#53
Nah, just read the threads.
It's already been refuted.

& this is becoming spam.

SiL

QuoteHonestly, I feel it's obvious that Fox considers these franchises and every single installment - from Alien (1979), Aliens (1986), Predator (1987), Predator 2 (1990), Alien 3 (1992), Alien Resurrection (1997), Alien vs. Predator (2004), Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem (2007), Predators (2010), Prometheus (2012), Alien: Covenant (2017), to The Predator (2018) - to be canonical to each other,
Except the part where someone who does work with Fox flat out says "They don't consider them all canon to each other."

The Old One

The Old One

#55

TurokSwe

TurokSwe

#56
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 02, 2019, 09:49:55 AM
Nah, just read the threads.
It's already been refuted.

& this is becoming spam.

The threads are diluted and not addressing my arguments. If you'll only respond to me with effortless responses like this then I'm going to assume you actually have no argument to make.


Quote from: SiL on Feb 02, 2019, 10:15:44 AM
QuoteHonestly, I feel it's obvious that Fox considers these franchises and every single installment - from Alien (1979), Aliens (1986), Predator (1987), Predator 2 (1990), Alien 3 (1992), Alien Resurrection (1997), Alien vs. Predator (2004), Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem (2007), Predators (2010), Prometheus (2012), Alien: Covenant (2017), to The Predator (2018) - to be canonical to each other,
Except the part where someone who does work with Fox flat out says "They don't consider them all canon to each other."

Proof? If you can't prove it then I call nonsense.


Quote from: The Old One on Feb 02, 2019, 10:30:02 AM
https://66.media.tumblr.com/da46a5f78a05773ce44411fe93b02e65/tumblr_omo2i1PoOH1uijsn1o1_250.gif

Now you're just getting obnoxious.

The Cruentus

If fox considers them non-canon then there is nothing you can say that matters, if you personally take them as canon then fair enough but to state it as fact when the people who hold the rights say otherwise is just not going to fly. SM has worked with fox, if he says fox doesn't consider them canon to each then that is that. Also there was a twitter feed a month or so back from someone working for them stating the same.

Both Ridley's comments and Covenant itself should make it obvious that the avp movies are no longer canon, at least to the Alien franchise.

The Old One

The Old One

#58
^

SiL

Quote from: TurokSwe on Feb 02, 2019, 10:39:19 AM
Proof? If you can't prove it then I call nonsense.
SM works with Fox's licensing people when they plan out new novels. Fox's stance is that the AvP films are not canon to the Alien films.

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