Quote from: oduodu on Jun 15, 2023, 06:23:06 AMsorry i have never gone into such detail. the salaco was marine property. so bishop was more or less more under burke s authority. uss was a dead give away.
According to one manual, Bishop was part of the Marine contingent. According to Ripley, the mission is under military jurisdiction. However, Bishop was getting his orders from Burke, i.e., according to what he said to Ripley, and that involved preparing the facehuggers for company labs. It's likely the company referred to here is W-Y.
Quote from: oduodu on Jun 15, 2023, 07:07:36 AM👍
who made and programmed ash?
Hyperdyne Systems
who owned ash?
who operated ash?
or did wy hire him from hyperdyne systems? or whoever put him up for rent?
Given the contents of the first movie, he wanted to accomplish the special order given by the company. In which case, he works for the company.
Quote from: oduodu on Jun 15, 2023, 09:40:38 AMjust tryimg to make the point that burke was working alone for his self own interests to get ahead and that bishop wasnt a robot aidimg him in that regard
AS IN
"the people who instructed him to return a specimem secretly programmed bishop to aid him in said venture"
The company labs referred to by Bishop and to which he was instructed by Burke are likely those of Weyland-Yutani.
These and others points, plus the fact that Burke would receive only a percentage, point to him not working alone.
Quote from: caffeine4671 on Jun 15, 2023, 04:13:58 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Jun 15, 2023, 12:14:39 PMIt's worth noting that Bishop never did destroy those specimens like Ripley told him to. As I've said before, Bishop may have had no justifiable reason to defy Burke's instructions, which were both reasonable and legal so long as the containment and transport of those specimens adhered to ICC protocols. Ripley would have therefore needed more than just another fearful tantrum to countermand him.
If she had marched right back to Bishop after her confrontation with Burke and told him that Burke intended to smuggle those specimens past ICC quarantine, Burke would have just denied her accusations and they'd be right back to square one. Besides, she may have figured that her threats alone would be enough to dissuade Burke from even trying to bring them back. He had bigger problems to worry about at that point.
Come to think of it, if United Systems Military wanted the alien, why wouldn't a few higher-ups at UA Military want that as well?
According to one manual, Bishop was supposed to work for the military. In which case, there would have been no reason for him to work for Burke. Add to this Ripley's point that the mission is under military jurisdiction, which is something that Burke didn't contest except that a "grunt" isn't capable of making decisions.
Ripley also added that there would be no way for the facehuggers to pass through the ICC:
QuoteRipley: He wanted an alien, only he couldn't get it back through quarantine. But if we were impregnated ...whatever you call it...and then frozen for the trip back at just the right time...then nobody would
know about the embryos we were carrying. We and Newt.
Thus, it's an issue between Ripley and the existence of "ICC protocols".
As for "had to marched back," she actually did:
QuoteIn a small observation chamber separated from the med lab by a glass partition, Ripley and Burke have squared off.
Burke: Those specimens are worth millions to the bio-weapons division. Now, if you're smart
we can both come out of this heroes. Set up for life.
Ripley: You just try getting a dangerous organism past ICC quarantine. Section 22350 of the Commerce Code.
Burke: You've been doing your homework. Look, they can't impound it if they don't know about it.
In short, Burke planned to smuggle the facehuggers, but Ripley would tell.
But, as I pointed out earlier, Burke should have anticipated that because in her last call before they left, she wanted assurance from Burke that they had no plans of using finds for profit, and that they would destroy everything.
Again, all of these point away from the view that Burke is a cartoon villain. What's more believable is the existence of a military industrial complex, with company and government working together. And that's your last point.
Quote from: Jonjamess on Jun 15, 2023, 07:46:07 PMQuote from: Engineer on Jun 14, 2023, 11:37:18 PMQuote from: Acid_Reign161 on Jun 14, 2023, 11:26:22 PMQuote from: caffeine4671 on Jun 14, 2023, 10:51:18 PMWell, for the shuttle and some of the equipment and electrical systems I'd imagine that's actually the canon reason.
Now for things like the computers and stuff looking 'cheap' (like they were made in 1978, eh, eh? :b), the simplest explanation is just that it's an aesthetic design choice.
It's a world very much like Blade Runner (if not the same world), where the digital revolution never happened, and analogue technology is still mainstream (so long as we disregard Prometheus and Covenant's retcon).
Blade runner is its own universe. The timelines don't match up; blade runner's universe severely contradicts the timeline of the alien universe.
I don't think prometheus and covenant are really retcons just because they show more advanced tech than the previous films. I could easily see a company sticking with older tech on less important "tug boats" than a science vessel to save money. For example, I used to work in an applied research lab, and most of my equipment was analogue (my choice at the time) because it's cheaper and got the same job done as the digital stuff (plus, I know how to fix analogue equipment if it breaks). That being said, the real reason that alien has that low tech future is really just an artifact of the times when the film was made; I bet if ridley Scott re-made the film today, it would look more like prometheus and covenant did as far as the tech goes...
I definitely agree the world's aren't the same. It's an Easter egg.
And I can't keep up with you @ralfy veacuse it's becoming abnoxious now.
You're wrong. James Cameron wrote the movie and he says your wrong. He says that because his intentions for the story he wrote go against yours. That's literally the end of it.
If we follow your argument, then any analysis of the movie becomes futile. Also, as I explained to you earlier, your view is similar to anyone claiming, for example, that the
Iliad is a myth (i.e., with the gods influencing man) is wrong because the Greeks saw it as historical truth. And that's based on the assumption that Homer (if he ever existed) thought the same way.
What's being shown in this analysis is that the contents of Cameron's movie goes against what Cameron said. That's basically it. If you think that's obnoxious, then you're free not to participate in the thread.
Quote from: caffeine4671 on Jun 15, 2023, 07:53:53 PMFor a while, there was either an official or fan attempt to push the date of Blade Runner to 2119 rather than 2019, presumably to make it fit with Alien (or maybe a different reason). This has always been silly. Other than the FX team re-using the "Purge" display and having the same production team, there's no reason to think they're in the same universe.
Then again, Alien has the UPP, Blade runner has the CCCP existing in an 80s style Soviet state, so there's also that similarity. One of them takes place in an alternate 20th/21st century, the other is a zeerust future.
It's like the Tommy Westphal Universe:
https://tommywestphall.fandom.com/wiki/Tommy_Westphall_HypothesisThat reveals connections between the
Alien franchise,
Blade Runner, and even shows like
M*A*S*H*.