Aliens: An Analysis

[Eal]

Well, for the shuttle and some of the equipment and electrical systems I'd imagine that's actually the canon reason.

Now for things like the computers and stuff looking 'cheap' (like they were made in 1978, eh, eh? :b), the simplest explanation is just that it's an aesthetic design choice.

It's a world very much like Blade Runner (if not the same world), where the digital revolution never happened, and analogue technology is still mainstream (so long as we disregard Prometheus and Covenant's retcon).

Blade runner is its own universe. The timelines don't match up; blade runner's universe severely contradicts the timeline of the alien universe.

I don't think prometheus and covenant are really retcons just because they show more advanced tech than the previous films. I could easily see a company sticking with older tech on less important "tug boats" than a science vessel to save money. For example, I used to work in an applied research lab, and most of my equipment was analogue (my choice at the time) because it's cheaper and got the same job done as the digital stuff (plus, I know how to fix analogue equipment if it breaks). That being said, the real reason that alien has that low tech future is really just an artifact of the times when the film was made; I bet if ridley Scott re-made the film today, it would look more like prometheus and covenant did as far as the tech goes...

It's obviously the real reason. But there's no also reason they couldn't simply get modern displays and put them in late 70s era chassis and work up a Nostromo-style terminal OS.

You could cheat a bit when showing them off too. Have a clearly old looking display doing things that no display of that era could like display in real time to indicate that it's the future and the tech is more alien and powerful than we know.

Have you ever seen that video of the guy that reprogrammed a Zenneth Tube to display like a Pip boy OS? It ends up looking creepy and fantastical in a way that might work to the universe's benefit.

[Acid_Reign161]

Well, for the shuttle and some of the equipment and electrical systems I'd imagine that's actually the canon reason.

Now for things like the computers and stuff looking 'cheap' (like they were made in 1978, eh, eh? :b), the simplest explanation is just that it's an aesthetic design choice.

It's a world very much like Blade Runner (if not the same world), where the digital revolution never happened, and analogue technology is still mainstream (so long as we disregard Prometheus and Covenant's retcon).

Blade runner is its own universe. The timelines don't match up; blade runner's universe severely contradicts the timeline of the alien universe.

I don't think prometheus and covenant are really retcons just because they show more advanced tech than the previous films. I could easily see a company sticking with older tech on less important "tug boats" than a science vessel to save money. For example, I used to work in an applied research lab, and most of my equipment was analogue (my choice at the time) because it's cheaper and got the same job done as the digital stuff (plus, I know how to fix analogue equipment if it breaks). That being said, the real reason that alien has that low tech future is really just an artifact of the times when the film was made; I bet if ridley Scott re-made the film today, it would look more like prometheus and covenant did as far as the tech goes...

At a stretch, I could get on board with Prometheus having better tech on account that Weyland himself was on board the ship, and he was cashing in on potentially extending his life. But not Covenant... it's a colony ship, decades before Hadley's Hope which clearly had analogue terminals for floor plans etc (no holographic technology). And whilst it's true that the movies can be considered 'of their time' - the fact remains that 'Alien Isolation' (or for a movie comparison; 'Blade Runner 2049') didn't feel the need to retcon what came before them / respected established canon, despite when they were made. (That isn't me hating on Prometheus or Covenant btw, I enjoy them very much, but Ridley Scott could have and should have followed through with the analogue tech... hell, it's my least favourite, but even Resurrection uses analogue tech, and that's a further 200 years after aliens 😅

[Eal]

I'll stick with the Aesthetic Choice theory cause it makes my head hurt less. :p Although I don't necessarily dislike the use of anologue-ey aesthetics for some of the video displays.

[ralfy]

You know, the ignore button brings so much bliss... I haven't had to read any of Ralfy's tripe for days... I just see the aftermath of replies and ponder what it was today...maybe its a Bishop works for Burke kinda day... maybe WeYu is the government/illuminati, maybe it's just a "eVeRyOnE kNeW aBOut ThE dErElicT 'cAusE oF tHE NosTRomOs bLaCK bOX...SOMEONE ANSWER THIS" sorta vibe... ahh the possibilities 😂

Time for me to do the same, then, and only because you're now resorting to trolling, e.g., compares getting details from a movie with references to the illuminati, and then give more personal insults like using 4chan typing. That's the height of trolling.

The movie doesn't show that Bishop works for Burke.

We don't actually need to consider points you make up because you weren't paying attention.

I'll completely admit I glossed over the fact Burke had the live ones in mind when instructing Bishop.

But as you say there is still zero evidence in the movie Bishop takes orders or is working for Burke. He works for that particular Colonial Marine detachment, and he clearly takes orders from people like Gorman or Apone. But as I mentioned Gorman or Apone didn't really seem to care about the facehuggers dead or alive and weren't really qualified to make any decisions regarding seizing those specimens. So they probably just went along with Burke's advice and Bishop's logic in that instance.

From the movie:

Bishop: "Mr. Burke have instructions that they were to be kept alive in stasis for return to the company labs. He was very specific."

More word vomit!!

Quoted for truth

Can't do analysis, so resorts to personal insults.

"hey ripley what happened to the other 6 people ? why were some of them not on the lifeboat with you? where were they when the engines detonated?

so you either killed or disabled all of them for no good reason. "

I think the lifeboat could only hold two people.

i think there was 2 lifeboats

I bet you got through to him this time.

Only a few more posts and it'll be settled me thinks.

lmfao

bishop is a piece of machinery governed by asimov s 3 robot laws.  his work is to do whatever he is programmed to do. as the property of wy he is applying his programming on a ship owned by his creators and programmers.  burke as an employee of wy might therefore be in a authorative position as per bishop s prigramming more than the marines. but he doesnt work for burke personally. hence he cannot do  something illegal even if ordered by burke .

From what I remember, there was only one, and that could hold two crew members. That's why when that was raised when only three of them were left, Ripley said they'll figure out what to do after. That became a non-issue when only she survived.

About Asimov's point, I don't know know what people would say about Ash.

According to one manual, Bishop works for the Marines. In which case, he would not bother following what "Mr. Burke" wants. Besides, as Ripley points out, the mission is under military jurisdiction, unless the government works with the company (who else would buy bioweapons if not the military?). In which case, this also explains why Bishop was analyzing the facehuggers as the Marines were out on a mission.

And yet he makes it very clear that he does and points that out to Ripley. Instead of arguing with him, Ripley goes to Burke and argues with him instead.

Bishop doesn't have to work for Burke personally because he likely works for the company, just like Burke, and what the company would want is for them to send the facehuggers to company labs.

About doing something illegal, you're right, because Ripley would point out later that they wouldn't get pass the ICC with the facehuggers, which is why Burke decided to have Ripley and Newt infected. That also shows that Burke is making mistakes because he would have known that, too, which is why his instructions to Bishop don't make sense. The same would apply to government and company. What happened, then?

I think they assumed that just like in the first movie, there would be only one alien, and that the Marines would be able to take it down readily. After which, they would rescue survivors and in bring more company and government personnel to secure both the colony and the alien ship, and then even set up company labs nearby. That way, there'd be no violation of ICC regulations.

Well, for the shuttle and some of the equipment and electrical systems I'd imagine that's actually the canon reason.

Now for things like the computers and stuff looking 'cheap' (like they were made in 1978, eh, eh? :b), the simplest explanation is just that it's an aesthetic design choice.

It actually helped because one point was to create a blue-collar atmosphere, e.g., space truckers and grunts. For the second movie, I think they had budget constraints, so the film crew used aircraft and military surplus nearby.



To recap, we have an additional point about the illegality of transporting alien organisms and Burke's orders to Bishop to prepare the facehuggers for such. He made the mistake of knowing that the ICC would block them, and probably only when Ripley started confronting him about his instructions to Bishop. He made a mistake with that, too, because from the hearing and from his discussion with Ripley, she made it very clear that she was very much against it:

Ripley: Burke, just tell me one thing. That you're going out there to kill them. Not study. Not bring back. Just burn them out...clean ...forever.

Burke:  That's the plan. My word on it.

Also, that sounds believable given Burke's point that they just want to secure the terraforming project, but Ripley would have wondered why they're sending a heavily armed team, and she is needed. That would only mean that the colony had been infected, and that meant that they found the alien ship. But was it accidental? Van Leuwen pointed out that they had been there two decades and saw nothing, which means they were sent to it.

In which case, Ripley would have anticipated the following, which is why she agreed to join them: that just like in the first movie, there'd probably be only one alien, and that the Marines would be able to destroy it, and from there she'd argue with Burke about the alien ship, etc. But if the company had the nerve to send someone to check out the alien ship, then it's likely that they had plans to monetize the find.

This also puts to question the weird view that the company didn't care, and then suddenly cared after the colonists found the alien ship. That line of thinking sounds ridiculous, as companies care for the bottom line, which is maximization of profits. In which case, whatever special order they implicitly argue to Ripley they know nothing about remained in place. In short, nothing changed throughout the decades that Ripley was gone.

[Local Trouble]

About doing something illegal, you're right, because Ripley would point out later that they wouldn't get pass the ICC with the facehuggers, which is why Burke decided to have Ripley and Newt infected. That also shows that Burke is making mistakes because he would have known that, too, which is why his instructions to Bishop don't make sense. The same would apply to government and company. What happened, then?

Dear ralfy,

I understand your points about Burke's actions seeming to contradict his knowledge of ICC protocols, however, it's important to consider the mindset and motivations of Burke during the events of Aliens. Burke was operating out of desperation and was primarily motivated by two objectives: 1) he wanted to bring back the xenomorph specimens to Earth for Weyland-Yutani's bio-weapons division, and 2) he needed to evade accountability for his role in the disaster on LV-426.

As you rightly pointed out, Bishop, the synthetic lifeform, was following the protocols set by Weyland-Yutani and the ECA. Bishop was also taking instructions from Burke, as he was programmed to do, and since none of these instructions were in direct conflict with his primary programming of not causing harm to humans, he proceeded with his analysis of the specimens.

When Burke initially directed Bishop to preserve the facehugger specimens, it's likely he was planning to smuggle them back to Earth in a covert manner, circumventing ICC quarantine and import regulations. Bishop might not have been aware of this ulterior motive because Burke did not divulge it, and Bishop had no reason to question Burke's intentions, given his programming.

However, when Ripley discovered Burke's plot and threatened to expose him to the ICC, it became clear to Burke that his scheme was in jeopardy. Not only was his career at risk, but he also faced possible criminal charges for his role in the loss of the Hadley's Hope colony. In a desperate move to avoid both these outcomes, Burke decided to infect Ripley and Newt with the xenomorphs.

This was a drastic but calculated move by Burke. By ensuring Ripley and Newt were infected, he effectively silenced Ripley while still ensuring the safe transport of the xenomorph specimens back to Earth. This course of action, albeit reckless, was his attempt to kill two birds with one stone.

In conclusion, Burke's actions throughout the film can be understood as desperate measures taken by a man cornered by his own ambition and duplicity. His choices may not have been logical from an ethical standpoint, but they were guided by his personal objectives and the dire circumstances he found himself in.

Best,

ChatGPT

[Engineer]

About doing something illegal, you're right, because Ripley would point out later that they wouldn't get pass the ICC with the facehuggers, which is why Burke decided to have Ripley and Newt infected. That also shows that Burke is making mistakes because he would have known that, too, which is why his instructions to Bishop don't make sense. The same would apply to government and company. What happened, then?

Dear ralfy,

I understand your points about Burke's actions seeming to contradict his knowledge of ICC protocols, however, it's important to consider the mindset and motivations of Burke during the events of Aliens. Burke was operating out of desperation and was primarily motivated by two objectives: 1) he wanted to bring back the xenomorph specimens to Earth for Weyland-Yutani's bio-weapons division, and 2) he needed to evade accountability for his role in the disaster on LV-426.

As you rightly pointed out, Bishop, the synthetic lifeform, was following the protocols set by Weyland-Yutani and the ECA. Bishop was also taking instructions from Burke, as he was programmed to do, and since none of these instructions were in direct conflict with his primary programming of not causing harm to humans, he proceeded with his analysis of the specimens.

When Burke initially directed Bishop to preserve the facehugger specimens, it's likely he was planning to smuggle them back to Earth in a covert manner, circumventing ICC quarantine and import regulations. Bishop might not have been aware of this ulterior motive because Burke did not divulge it, and Bishop had no reason to question Burke's intentions, given his programming.

However, when Ripley discovered Burke's plot and threatened to expose him to the ICC, it became clear to Burke that his scheme was in jeopardy. Not only was his career at risk, but he also faced possible criminal charges for his role in the loss of the Hadley's Hope colony. In a desperate move to avoid both these outcomes, Burke decided to infect Ripley and Newt with the xenomorphs.

This was a drastic but calculated move by Burke. By ensuring Ripley and Newt were infected, he effectively silenced Ripley while still ensuring the safe transport of the xenomorph specimens back to Earth. This course of action, albeit reckless, was his attempt to kill two birds with one stone.

In conclusion, Burke's actions throughout the film can be understood as desperate measures taken by a man cornered by his own ambition and duplicity. His choices may not have been logical from an ethical standpoint, but they were guided by his personal objectives and the dire circumstances he found himself in.

Best,

ChatGPT

Visibility amplification

Well, for the shuttle and some of the equipment and electrical systems I'd imagine that's actually the canon reason.

Now for things like the computers and stuff looking 'cheap' (like they were made in 1978, eh, eh? :b), the simplest explanation is just that it's an aesthetic design choice.

It's a world very much like Blade Runner (if not the same world), where the digital revolution never happened, and analogue technology is still mainstream (so long as we disregard Prometheus and Covenant's retcon).

Blade runner is its own universe. The timelines don't match up; blade runner's universe severely contradicts the timeline of the alien universe.

I don't think prometheus and covenant are really retcons just because they show more advanced tech than the previous films. I could easily see a company sticking with older tech on less important "tug boats" than a science vessel to save money. For example, I used to work in an applied research lab, and most of my equipment was analogue (my choice at the time) because it's cheaper and got the same job done as the digital stuff (plus, I know how to fix analogue equipment if it breaks). That being said, the real reason that alien has that low tech future is really just an artifact of the times when the film was made; I bet if ridley Scott re-made the film today, it would look more like prometheus and covenant did as far as the tech goes...

At a stretch, I could get on board with Prometheus having better tech on account that Weyland himself was on board the ship, and he was cashing in on potentially extending his life. But not Covenant... it's a colony ship, decades before Hadley's Hope which clearly had analogue terminals for floor plans etc (no holographic technology). And whilst it's true that the movies can be considered 'of their time' - the fact remains that 'Alien Isolation' (or for a movie comparison; 'Blade Runner 2049') didn't feel the need to retcon what came before them / respected established canon, despite when they were made. (That isn't me hating on Prometheus or Covenant btw, I enjoy them very much, but Ridley Scott could have and should have followed through with the analogue tech... hell, it's my least favourite, but even Resurrection uses analogue tech, and that's a further 200 years after aliens 😅

That's just it though... it isn't a canon issue; it's an aesthetic issue...
Using my own working-experience as an example again though, I used a lot of analogue equipment in my lab, but once one of my projects left the lab and went to pilot-testing, they typically splurged for all the fancy bells and whistles. So I don't think it's that far fetched for a single company to use different tech in varying situations like we see on screen.
And in the case of the covenant specifically, I could see them having more of the bells and whistles than a tug-boat, shake'n'bake colony full of prospectors, or a prison complex would have. Resurrection is the odd-man out imo. I would expect a military vessel 200 years later to be more advanced, but then again it's the military, which perhaps they were more function over form, or something...

[oduodu]

sorry i have never gone into such detail. the salaco was marine property. so bishop was more or less more under burke s authority. uss was a dead give away.

[Local Trouble]

sorry i have never gone into such detail. the salaco was marine property. so bishop was more or less more under burke s authority. uss was a dead give away.

The marines are effectively the security arm of the ECA.  Extrasolar Colonisation Administration; US Colonial Marine Corps - see the connection?  Hadley's Hope was a WY/ ECA joint venture.  Cameron even says Bishop is ECA in the script.

[SiL]

Bishop is 100% not WY owned or operated. Hell, all Bishop II says the following movie is he designed the model. WY making androids didn't become a thing in the movies until AvP called Weyland "the father of modern robotics" which was then taken further in Prometheus.

[oduodu]

👍

who made and programmed ash?

Hyperdyne Systems

who owned ash?

who operated ash?

or did wy hire him from hyperdyne systems? or whoever put him up for rent?

[SiL]

Ash was made by Hyperdyne, owned and operated by WY.

[oduodu]

just tryimg to make the point that burke was working alone for his self own interests to get ahead and that bishop wasnt a robot aidimg him in that regard

AS IN

"the people who instructed him to return a specimem secretly programmed bishop to aid him in said venture"

[Local Trouble]

It's worth noting that Bishop never did destroy those specimens like Ripley told him to.  As I've said before, Bishop may have had no justifiable reason to defy Burke's instructions, which were both reasonable and legal so long as the containment and transport of those specimens adhered to ICC protocols.  Ripley would have therefore needed more than just another fearful tantrum to countermand him.

If she had marched right back to Bishop after her confrontation with Burke and told him that Burke intended to smuggle those specimens past ICC quarantine, Burke would have just denied her accusations and they'd be right back to square one.  Besides, she may have figured that her threats alone would be enough to dissuade Burke from even trying to bring them back.  He had bigger problems to worry about at that point.

[Eal]

It's worth noting that Bishop never did destroy those specimens like Ripley told him to.  As I've said before, Bishop may have had no justifiable reason to defy Burke's instructions, which were both reasonable and legal so long as the containment and transport of those specimens adhered to ICC protocols.  Ripley would have therefore needed more than just another fearful tantrum to countermand him.

If she had marched right back to Bishop after her confrontation with Burke and told him that Burke intended to smuggle those specimens past ICC quarantine, Burke would have just denied her accusations and they'd be right back to square one.  Besides, she may have figured that her threats alone would be enough to dissuade Burke from even trying to bring them back.  He had bigger problems to worry about at that point.

Come to think of it, if United Systems Military wanted the alien, why wouldn't a few higher-ups at UA Military want that as well?

[Local Trouble]

By the time of AR there was actual proof of the aliens' existence and, more importantly, their combat effectiveness.  I doubt any higher-ups in the UA military paid much attention to Ripley's outlandish story of a killer star beast prior to the Sulaco's mission.  Even if they did, I doubt they'd see enough value in it to join some grand conspiracy just because it happened to kill a few space truckers.