Aliens: An Analysis

[Jonjamess]

Well, for the shuttle and some of the equipment and electrical systems I'd imagine that's actually the canon reason.

Now for things like the computers and stuff looking 'cheap' (like they were made in 1978, eh, eh? :b), the simplest explanation is just that it's an aesthetic design choice.

It's a world very much like Blade Runner (if not the same world), where the digital revolution never happened, and analogue technology is still mainstream (so long as we disregard Prometheus and Covenant's retcon).

Blade runner is its own universe. The timelines don't match up; blade runner's universe severely contradicts the timeline of the alien universe.

I don't think prometheus and covenant are really retcons just because they show more advanced tech than the previous films. I could easily see a company sticking with older tech on less important "tug boats" than a science vessel to save money. For example, I used to work in an applied research lab, and most of my equipment was analogue (my choice at the time) because it's cheaper and got the same job done as the digital stuff (plus, I know how to fix analogue equipment if it breaks). That being said, the real reason that alien has that low tech future is really just an artifact of the times when the film was made; I bet if ridley Scott re-made the film today, it would look more like prometheus and covenant did as far as the tech goes...

I definitely agree the world's aren't the same. It's an Easter egg.

And I can't keep up with you @ralfy veacuse it's becoming abnoxious now.

You're wrong. James Cameron wrote the movie and he says your wrong. He says that because his intentions for the story he wrote go against yours. That's literally the end of it.

[Eal]

For a while, there was either an official or fan attempt to push the date of Blade Runner to 2119 rather than 2019, presumably to make it fit with Alien (or maybe a different reason). This has always been silly. Other than the FX team re-using the "Purge" display and having the same production team, there's no reason to think they're in the same universe.


Then again, Alien has the UPP, Blade runner has the CCCP existing in an 80s style Soviet state, so there's also that similarity. One of them takes place in an alternate 20th/21st century, the other is a zeerust future.

[Engineer]

For a while, there was either an official or fan attempt to push the date of Blade Runner to 2119 rather than 2019, presumably to make it fit with Alien (or maybe a different reason). This has always been silly. Other than the FX team re-using the "Purge" display and having the same production team, there's no reason to think they're in the same universe.


Then again, Alien has the UPP, Blade runner has the CCCP existing in an 80s style Soviet state, so there's also that similarity. One of them takes place in an alternate 20th/21st century, the other is a zeerust future.

I'm betting that was a fan attempt. I don't see the movie studios pursuing that, since the IPs are both owned by completely different studios.
(And before anyone says anything, spider-man was a special case lol) 

[SiL]

It's worth noting that Bishop never did destroy those specimens like Ripley told him to.

She does say "when you're finished". I think the whole getting everyone evacuated thing interrupted him.

[Engineer]

It's worth noting that Bishop never did destroy those specimens like Ripley told him to.

She does say "when you're finished". I think the whole getting everyone evacuated thing interrupted him.

Seems to me like all bishop needed to do to destroy the specimens (and comply with Ripley's command) was to leave them behind and let the pending explosion take them out... minimal effort. The only downside was it allowed for that pesky lone-actor Burke to behave nefariously...

[ralfy]

sorry i have never gone into such detail. the salaco was marine property. so bishop was more or less more under burke s authority. uss was a dead give away.

According to one manual, Bishop was part of the Marine contingent. According to Ripley, the mission is under military jurisdiction. However, Bishop was getting his orders from Burke, i.e., according to what he said to Ripley, and that involved preparing the facehuggers for company labs. It's likely the company referred to here is W-Y.

👍

who made and programmed ash?

Hyperdyne Systems

who owned ash?

who operated ash?

or did wy hire him from hyperdyne systems? or whoever put him up for rent?

Given the contents of the first movie, he wanted to accomplish the special order given by the company. In which case, he works for the company.

just tryimg to make the point that burke was working alone for his self own interests to get ahead and that bishop wasnt a robot aidimg him in that regard

AS IN

"the people who instructed him to return a specimem secretly programmed bishop to aid him in said venture"

The company labs referred to by Bishop and to which he was instructed by Burke are likely those of Weyland-Yutani.

These and others points, plus the fact that Burke would receive only a percentage, point to him not working alone.

It's worth noting that Bishop never did destroy those specimens like Ripley told him to.  As I've said before, Bishop may have had no justifiable reason to defy Burke's instructions, which were both reasonable and legal so long as the containment and transport of those specimens adhered to ICC protocols.  Ripley would have therefore needed more than just another fearful tantrum to countermand him.

If she had marched right back to Bishop after her confrontation with Burke and told him that Burke intended to smuggle those specimens past ICC quarantine, Burke would have just denied her accusations and they'd be right back to square one.  Besides, she may have figured that her threats alone would be enough to dissuade Burke from even trying to bring them back.  He had bigger problems to worry about at that point.

Come to think of it, if United Systems Military wanted the alien, why wouldn't a few higher-ups at UA Military want that as well?

According to one manual, Bishop was supposed to work for the military. In which case, there would have been no reason for him to work for Burke. Add to this Ripley's point that the mission is under military jurisdiction, which is something that Burke didn't contest except that a "grunt" isn't capable of making decisions.

Ripley also added that there would be no way for the facehuggers to pass through the ICC:

Ripley:  He wanted an alien, only he couldn't get it back through quarantine. But if we were impregnated ...whatever you call it...and then frozen for the trip back at just the right time...then nobody would
 know about the embryos we were carrying. We and Newt.

Thus, it's an issue between Ripley and the existence of "ICC protocols".

As for "had to marched back," she actually did:

In a small observation chamber separated from the med lab by a glass partition, Ripley and Burke have squared off.

Burke: Those specimens are worth millions to the bio-weapons division. Now, if you're smart
 we can both come out of this heroes. Set up for life.

Ripley: You just try getting a dangerous organism past ICC quarantine. Section 22350 of the Commerce Code.


Burke: You've been doing your homework. Look, they can't impound it if they don't know about it.

In short, Burke planned to smuggle the facehuggers, but Ripley would tell.

But, as I pointed out earlier, Burke should have anticipated that because in her last call before they left, she wanted assurance from Burke that they had no plans of using finds for profit, and that they would destroy everything.

Again, all of these point away from the view that Burke is a cartoon villain. What's more believable is the existence of a military industrial complex, with company and government working together. And that's your last point.

Well, for the shuttle and some of the equipment and electrical systems I'd imagine that's actually the canon reason.

Now for things like the computers and stuff looking 'cheap' (like they were made in 1978, eh, eh? :b), the simplest explanation is just that it's an aesthetic design choice.

It's a world very much like Blade Runner (if not the same world), where the digital revolution never happened, and analogue technology is still mainstream (so long as we disregard Prometheus and Covenant's retcon).

Blade runner is its own universe. The timelines don't match up; blade runner's universe severely contradicts the timeline of the alien universe.

I don't think prometheus and covenant are really retcons just because they show more advanced tech than the previous films. I could easily see a company sticking with older tech on less important "tug boats" than a science vessel to save money. For example, I used to work in an applied research lab, and most of my equipment was analogue (my choice at the time) because it's cheaper and got the same job done as the digital stuff (plus, I know how to fix analogue equipment if it breaks). That being said, the real reason that alien has that low tech future is really just an artifact of the times when the film was made; I bet if ridley Scott re-made the film today, it would look more like prometheus and covenant did as far as the tech goes...

I definitely agree the world's aren't the same. It's an Easter egg.

And I can't keep up with you @ralfy veacuse it's becoming abnoxious now.

You're wrong. James Cameron wrote the movie and he says your wrong. He says that because his intentions for the story he wrote go against yours. That's literally the end of it.

If we follow your argument, then any analysis of the movie becomes futile. Also, as I explained to you earlier, your view is similar to anyone claiming, for example, that the Iliad is a myth (i.e., with the gods influencing man) is wrong because the Greeks saw it as historical truth. And that's based on the assumption that Homer (if he ever existed) thought the same way.

What's being shown in this analysis is that the contents of Cameron's movie goes against what Cameron said. That's basically it. If you think that's obnoxious, then you're free not to participate in the thread.

For a while, there was either an official or fan attempt to push the date of Blade Runner to 2119 rather than 2019, presumably to make it fit with Alien (or maybe a different reason). This has always been silly. Other than the FX team re-using the "Purge" display and having the same production team, there's no reason to think they're in the same universe.


Then again, Alien has the UPP, Blade runner has the CCCP existing in an 80s style Soviet state, so there's also that similarity. One of them takes place in an alternate 20th/21st century, the other is a zeerust future.

It's like the Tommy Westphal Universe:

https://tommywestphall.fandom.com/wiki/Tommy_Westphall_Hypothesis

That reveals connections between the Alien franchise, Blade Runner, and even shows like M*A*S*H*.

[Local Trouble]

It's worth noting that Bishop never did destroy those specimens like Ripley told him to.

She does say "when you're finished". I think the whole getting everyone evacuated thing interrupted him.

Oh, I agree.  However, I doubt anyone planned for their escape to be so tight and for so few of them to make it.  If not for all hell breaking loose after Bishop left, the plan was surely to have the dropship set down on the tarmac with plenty of time for Ripley, Newt, Gorman, Hicks, Hudson, Vasquez and Burke to calmly board it for takeoff.  What was to stop Burke from taking the specimens with them then?

Ripley also added that there would be no way for the facehuggers to pass through the ICC:

Yeah, because she threatened him with blowing the whistle if he tried.  That doesn't mean he couldn't smuggle them through if she'd kept her mouth shut.

[SiL]

Oh, I agree.  However, I doubt anyone planned for their escape to be so tight and for so few of them to make it.  If not for all hell breaking loose after Bishop left, the plan was surely to have the dropship set down on the tarmac with plenty of time for Ripley, Newt, Gorman, Hicks, Hudson, Vasquez and Burke to calmly board it for takeoff.  What was to stop Burke from taking the specimens with them then?

When Burke made the request, the place wasn't about to explode. So it's entirely possible the idea -- or at least a backup plan -- was to leave the facehuggers in place and have someone collect and smuggle later.

Come to think of it, that's probably one of the reasons he tried to get Ripley and Newt impregnated. There was no option to leave them any more, and like hell anyone was going to let him wheel the specimens onto the dropship in giant containers. The marines would've wasted them before letting them on the ship.

See Burke isn't a moustache twirling villain. He's a f**king idiot. He's too blinded by greed to see how absolutely flawed all of his ideas are:

• Send out the colonists without warning them, end up with an infestation (and them getting a finder's claim even if it had gone well).
• Preserve facehuggers, assume everyone is just going to be chill with walking them back on the ship.
• Infect Ripley and Newt -- they'll have facehuggers on them when the place blows up, which he'd realised if he'd gone over Ripley's report on the Nostromo incident.
• Try to lock the marines in with the Aliens while walking through the colony unarmed and alone -- f**king die.

[Local Trouble]

When Burke made the request, the place wasn't about to explode. So it's entirely possible the idea -- or at least a backup plan -- was to leave the facehuggers in place and have someone collect and smuggle later.

Would they survive the Sulaco dropping a nuke on them?  The place was going to explode either way.

The marines would've wasted them before letting them on the ship.

I'm not so sure of that.  It was only Ripley who raised an objection to bringing them back and the marines didn't become openly hostile toward Burke until he unleashed them on Ripley and Newt.

Burke may not have been able to talk them out of nuking the site from orbit, but he might have been able to make an argument that he had every right to bring back those two specimens.  Even if he had to go through ICC quarantine and take his chances at getting a smaller percentage.  Hell, bringing them back at all may have been his best chance at earning some leniency for his actions.

[SiL]

I'm not so sure of that.  It was only Ripley who raised an objection to bringing them back and the marines didn't become openly hostile toward Burke until he unleashed them on Ripley and Newt.

We don't really get the marines' reactions. Hicks made it clear they'd declare any aliens as well, and takes Ripley seriously when she accuses Burke of planning to sabotage their cryotubes - as in gets ready to execute him on the spot.

If Ripley hadn't found out his plan earlier, the second she realised Burke was trying to take the Aliens back - and again, giant tubes, not subtle - she would've got Hicks on side to waste them.

Hudson would also be super keen to not let them on board.

Burke never had a chance of getting his samples off the planet, but damned if he wasn't going to try.

[Local Trouble]

If Ripley hasn't found out his plan earlier, second she realised Burke was trying to take the Aliens back - and again, giant tubes, not subtle - she would've got Hicks on side to waste them.

I'm still not so sure of that.  My read on Hicks was that he was very similar to Dallas.  I can imagine him reluctantly allowing it so long as Bishop verified that the stasis tubes were secure.

The real question is what Gorman would have done.  He was still alive and officially in command at that point.  Hell, he may have overridden the decision to nuke the colony once Burke got in his ear.

[SiL]

I'm still not so sure of that.  My read on Hicks was that he was very similar to Dallas.  I can imagine him reluctantly allowing it so long as Bishop verified that the stasis tubes were secure.

He's ready to nuke the site. He's ready to kill Burke when hearing Ripley's story. He does not strike me as the kind of person willing to risk people like Burke having their hands on these things. He's the first person to indicate he takes Ripley seriously and he takes her advice on everything the whole movie. Why would that be any different?

"I'll nuke the site from orbit to make sure they're all dead, but I totally trust this Burke guy, sorry Ripley"?

Gorman had no respect from anybody. If he commanded them to keep the specimens alive I don't see anyone giving a shit. At the very least, Vasquez will not care what he says -- and again, doesn't strike me as the kind of person to be ok with Burke walking off with them.

[Local Trouble]

I imagine that Hicks agreeing to nuke the site from orbit was largely motivated by a desire to mercy-kill Apone and the others.

I guess I just don't see Hicks losing his shit over something like bringing back securely contained specimens.  I can definitely see Vasquez and Hudson losing their shit, but they weren't in charge.

After all, Hicks didn't snap until Ripley convinced him that Burke released the facehuggers and planned to kill the rest of them via sabotage.

[SiL]

After all, he didn't snap until Ripley convinced him that Burke released the facehuggers and planned to kill the rest of them via sabotage.

Which is the first time we see him hearing about any of this.

Bishop says Burke asked they be kept, Ripley confronts Burke, the station is about to blow up, Burke unleashes the facehuggers, Ripley gets Hicks up to speed. In the SE you can add the sentry guns into all of this. What Burke is planning is super low priority and can be dealt with as needed.

He listens to Ripley every step of the way, I don't see any reason to think he'd switch it up. He's written as Ripley's gun-toting lap dog and he plays it that way the whole film through.

It's also worth noting that even though Gorman is awake at that point, nobody's asking him shit and he stays out of the conversation entirely. He's effectively given up command, and being concussed, the team could -- and given their disliking of him, likely would -- argue he was unfit and Hicks was in charge.

[Local Trouble]

Both Hudson and Vasquez were present when Bishop told Ripley of Burke's instructions.  I doubt that both of them neglected to mention it to Hicks.

But it's possible that Hicks just shrugged and decided to let Ripley handle it, thinking she'd talk some sense into Burke.