Quote from: Jonjamess on Jul 24, 2023, 12:22:43 PM@ralfy
You are taking the bug hunt thing too literally. Nope the Marines are not specialist Xenomorph killers.
If you are to take anything from "it's a bug hunt" the average person would assume this is indigenous "pest" type lifeforms that present little threat. The Marines act like a "bug hunt" is a boring routine assignment.
The WY representative even states "and found something never once recorded in over 100 surveyed worlds".
Nobody has come across a creature like the Alien before, the Marines are clearly freaked out when they encounter them.
So simply, no the Marines are not specialist Alien killers! At least not the type of Alien life that presents serious threat to life.
You also keep mentioning Aucturians like they are an Alien humanoid. This is never once stated, it comes across more like they are colonists with gender reassignment (lady boys or similar). There's no mention that they are aliens and it doesn't even fit the context of the movie. The movie is about scary aliens, why would you mention "friendly" aliens in a throw away comment at the beginning of the movie, it would be counter productive to the tone the movie is trying to create. Cameron's intention is clearly not that the marines have had sexual encounters with aliens.
Yes, someone writing for
Ars Technica (I think) pointed that out: it's supposed to be a play on a "snipe hunt". In addition, the "bug stomper" logo for the first dropship might have not been what the unit specialized in as the second dropship is said to have a "smart ass" logo.
The problem is that you don't use the type of firepower they had in the movie to take down pests. I'd imagine tech with pest control. Given that and the firepower involved (sentry guns, grenades, flame units, shotguns, battle rifles with grenade launchers, heavy machine guns, nerve gas, APCs with heavy guns, and dropships with missiles), I think they have been hunting much bigger game. The problem, in this place, is as Gorman pointed out, they thought they were dealing with only one xenomorph. That's probably they weren't so concerned, especially given the point that the squad was just sent out right after completing one mission and was complaining about not having a break.
Next, I think it was the ECA rep who talked about not seeing anything like what Ripley describes, and adds that on the rock they saw nothing more than virus.
I don't remember seeing the Marines freak out, but I remember them retreating and shooting back, with Gorman temporarily catatonic. I think they didn't exactly see the alien for the first time, as any brief, like that of Ripley, would have contained at least an artist's depiction of the creature and even the facehugger given Ripley's description. This might explain why even Hicks managed to make fun of Burke when one facehugger tried to "kiss" him. LOL.
In which case, the Marines are obviously not specialists in killing this specific xenomorph but have may encountered similar, but probably more stupid, which is why they were very overconflident for this mission. This also explains why later Hudson tells Burke that they just got their "asses kicked" and that they need to nuke the aliens from orbit.
Finally, some refer to Arcturians as colonists, and you might be right, as the context involves "juicy colonists' daughters," but according to a manual they are a humanoid extraterrestial species:
https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/ArcturianSo that argument can go either way. See also
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/articles/arcturians/I don't know if you would consider Rico Ross' point.
Quote from: Stitch on Jul 24, 2023, 01:23:22 PMIf anything, the marines in the movie come across as the slackers who can't be trusted to do anything other than janitorial work, hence why Hudson asks if it's going to be a stand up fight, or another bug hunt. The implication being they're glorified pest control.
That's also why Gorman is put in charge, even with his limited experience. It's not supposed to be dangerous. It's supposed to be effectively a training mission.
The catch is that they went down heavily armed, and their movement upon entering the compound was the opposite of how they acted in the hanger and even in the dropship, and this even before they opened the compound doors. It was when they saw the damaged walls around them that they realized that it was going to be a stand up fight instead of a bug hunt.
I don't know why Gorman was put in charge, but it looks like they were not expecting a lot of trouble. As Gorman put it, following Ripley's brief, "a xenomorph may be involved," which is also what happened in the first movie. As they were heavily armed and trained, then they would have had a greater chance of taking down the creature than the Nostromo crew did.
In short, it wasn't so much a training mission but a bug hunt, and given the size of the creature given Ripley's report, they were expecting at least a fight from something much larger than a bug.
Some interesting points here:
"The throwaway line in Aliens that spawned decades of confusion"
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/08/the-throwaway-line-in-aliens-that-spawned-decades-of-confusion/I don't remember it spawning decades of confusion, as a xenomorph is what the writer describes: an alien life form. The reason for not using the word, then, is weird.
The writer is right in referring to the title of the movie and what viewers were expecting, and this is notable because it may have shown the complacency of those involved and which the viewers may have been anticipating: they were expecting a bug hunt and not a stand-up fight; that is, involving just one alien and not dozens.
Side note: I heard that that's what got producers excited, as Cameron was said to have sold them the idea by writing the word "Alien" on a board and then just adding "s" at the end. If it was already exciting to have one alien, which is what happened in the movie, imagine having loads of fun with a lot more of them. LOL.
The point that the Marines probably did both bug hunts and stand-up fights given Hudson's query sounds right: that is, it's not so much a training mission as just another bug hunt, in contrast to a stand-up fight, which he prefers. Only, I think they were expecting only one alien and not a lot of them.
The point about Burke asking if these are the creatures described in Ripley's report is odd, but I think it's because Burke was wondering how one creature could engage in such mayhem (as the damage done by the same in the first movie--and likely described in detail by Ripley in her report, i.e., about the hole created by acid from the facehugger--was not significant compared to what the Marines saw when they entered the compound). It did not occur to them that there were many, which is why they wondered later why the colonists were huddled together underneath the reactor.
The reference to the point about quarantines is notable, i.e., the perception that Ripley was also like others in the second movie because in the first it looked like she was more concerned about protecting herself and the rest of the crew than allowing Kane and the other members of the expedition back into the ship. The same goes for the writer's reference to the manual which implies that there are several sophisticated alien life forms even as the board of inquiry implicitly shows the opposite.
Finally, the writer points out that Burke, following Cameron's explanation is a special projects director of a research division of the company. This implies that he wasn't working alone. In fact, every point in the movie leads to that: Burke explains to Ripley that the board consists of representatives for the company, the insurer, the federal government, the ECA (which is in charge of administering colonies), and the ICC (which is in charge of interstellar commerce and rules governing that, such as quarantine protocols), and Burke is not only the representative of W-Y but given Cameron's point the perfect representative for it. There are also the points that according to Burke W-Y has a bio-weapons division which provides goods to the military and is dependent on his research division for material to exploit, Burke's point about Ripley becoming rich because she would get a percentage of earnings from such exploitation (following the contracts that the Nostromo crew members signed), and so on.