Quote from: Necronomicon II on Jun 07, 2023, 06:16:10 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Jun 07, 2023, 04:05:50 AMQuote from: ralfy on Jun 07, 2023, 01:15:37 AMcomandeering a military vessel and ordering a military contingent around
Yeah this has spilled over into gish gallop territory I'm afraid. 😂 SM would just repeat what we've all said but with far more sarcasm.
"Said license is hereby suspended indefinitely. No criminal charges will be filed against you at this time. You are released on your own recognizance for six months of psychometric probation, to include monthly review by an ICC psychiatric technician."
There are no lawsuits there. I think. Maybe. 🤔
Also Burke wants exclusive rights. He says this.
Gish gallop, my foot. Every point I gave is backed by the movie and what takes place in reality.
I have nothing to say about what you quoted because it doesn't counter my arguments. What's important, though, is that a board of inquiry isn't exactly the same as a criminal court. Additional points:
QuoteThe shuttle's flight recorder corroborates some elements of your account. That the Nostromo set down on LV-426, an unsurveyed planet, at that time. That repairs were made. That it resumed its course and was subsequently set
for self-destruct. By you. For reasons unknown.
If a flight recorder can record the planet on which they landed then it would have also recorded the landing location. That's where Burke got his info. And yet that's not mentioned during the hearing and wasn't even raised by Ripley during the hearing:
QuoteAre there any species like this 'hostile organism' on LV-426?
...
No. It's a rock. No indigenous life larger than a simple virus.
Wait, so they already analyzed the planet? Perhaps they have something there to investigate the landing location? Crickets from Ripley.
QuoteIt did not, however, contain any entries concerning the hostile life form you allegedly picked up.
Of course, it won't. That's why you need to check the landing location. But crickets once more from Ripley.
QuoteTo be perfectly frank, we've surveyed over three hundred worlds and no one's ever reported a creature which, using
your words... (read from Ripley's statement) ...'gestates in a living human host' and has 'concentrated molecular acid for blood.'
But you did find Arcturians, right? Of course, Ripley won't mention that because she wouldn't have known. Didn't do due diligence, remember? As I said, she probably needed a lawyer with a paralegal team. Instead, all she had was this guy:
QuoteYou had them eating out of your hand, kiddo.
who was part of the board and talking with the person being questioned!
QuoteSaid license is hereby suspended indefinitely. No criminal charges will be filed at this time and you are released on own recognizance for a six month period of psychometric probation, to include monthly review by an ICC psychiatric
tech...
From a board of inquiry, and with no defense lawyer?
QuoteYou sent them out there and you didn't even warn them, Burke. Why didn't you warn them?
...
Look, maybe the thing didn't even exist, right? And if I'd made it a major security situation, the Administration would've stepped in. Then no exclusive rights, nothing.
However,
QuoteYou know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them screwing each other over for a f**king percentage.
and
QuoteWell, the corporation co-financed that colony with the Colonial Administration, against mineral rights. We're getting into a lot of terraforming...'Building Better Worlds.'
Why is Ripley right and Burke wrong? Because it means the company owns what's underground but the Colonial Admin owns what's above. That means not only Burke but even the company gets nothing exclusive from surface rights. But the government still needs W-Y to develop tech from any findings, so a partnership will always exist between company, government, prospectors, and managers.
The way I see it, we have a planet that's considered the territory of the government and a company given mineral rights. The miners need a base for operations, which means terraforming accomplished through company assets and personnel and backed by government. In which case, the Jordens would have received a percentage from what they found, and Burke. As for the Nostromo crew, it would have been a percentage from what the company does as it monetizes the find.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Jun 07, 2023, 07:39:30 AMIt's just embarrassing at this point. 😂
Definitely! We're seeing the script of this movie unraveling, and it's even connected to the video presented by the OP.
The Reagan era was typified by the rise of the military industrial complex which Eisenhower warned about decades earlier, but this time linked with neoliberalism, which is characterized by maximization of profits and monetization.
That's clear in the movie, with W-Y and government partners the common demoninator across even the first and two movies, besides Ripley and the alien, of course.
It's nice to imagine that one should look at only characters like Ash and Burke at play, but one realizes that the video shared by the OP says a lot more.
Quote from: oduodu on Jun 07, 2023, 08:16:49 AMty sil
i asked google bard
https://bard.google.com/
the same question abd it answered:
Burke was able to reinstate Ripley's pilot license by using his connections within the company. He was a high-ranking executive at Weyland-Yutani, and he was able to pull some strings to get Ripley's license reinstated. This was despite the fact that Ripley had been grounded for five years after the events of the first movie.
Burke's reasons for reinstating Ripley's license were not entirely altruistic. He knew that Ripley was the only one who had ever survived an encounter with an Alien, and he wanted her on the team that was being sent to investigate the colony on LV-426. He also knew that Ripley would be a valuable asset, as she had extensive experience in space flight and combat.
Ripley was initially reluctant to join the mission, but she eventually agreed after Burke promised to reinstate her license. She also knew that it was her duty to help the colonists on LV-426, as they were in grave danger.
Ripley's decision to join the mission proved to be a wise one. She was instrumental in the team's success, and she helped to save the lives of many people. Burke, on the other hand, was not so lucky. He was killed by an Alien, and his death was a major setback for Weyland-Yutani.
The events of Aliens show that even the most powerful people can be brought down by their own hubris. Burke's arrogance led him to underestimate Ripley, and it ultimately cost him his life.
i asked bard to suggest a plot for an alien franchise sequel:
Sure, here is a possible plot for an Alien franchise sequel:
The film opens with a scene of a Weyland-Yutani research facility on a remote planet. The facility is being overrun by Xenomorphs, and the few remaining scientists are desperately trying to escape. They are eventually successful, but they are forced to leave behind a valuable cache of data on the Xenomorph species.
The film then cuts to a few years later, where a group of young colonists are setting up a new settlement on a nearby planet. The colonists are unaware of the danger that they are in, and they quickly find themselves under attack by the Xenomorphs.
The colonists are forced to fight for their survival, and they eventually manage to destroy the Xenomorph hive. However, they are not victorious. The Xenomorphs have already spread to other planets, and the war between humans and Xenomorphs has only just begun.
Here are some of the key elements that I would include in this sequel:
A strong female protagonist. The Alien franchise has always been known for its strong female characters, and I would continue this tradition in the sequel. The protagonist would be a young woman who is resourceful, intelligent, and brave.
A sense of dread and suspense. The Alien films are known for their ability to create a sense of dread and suspense, and I would want to capture this feeling in the sequel. The audience would be kept on the edge of their seats, wondering what is going to happen next.
A visually stunning film. The Alien films are also known for their stunning visuals, and I would want to make sure that the sequel is visually stunning as well. The film would feature stunning cinematography, special effects, and creature design.
I think this is a possible plot for an Alien franchise sequel that would be faithful to the spirit of the original films. It would feature a strong female protagonist, a sense of dread and suspense, and visually stunning visuals. I think this would be a film that fans of the franchise would love.
and for a prequel:
Sure, here is a possible plot for an Alien franchise prequel:
The year is 2122. The Weyland-Yutani Corporation is conducting a mining operation on the planet LV-426. The miners have been on the planet for several months, and they have yet to find any valuable resources.
One day, the miners are drilling into a new area of the planet when they accidentally awaken a dormant Xenomorph hive. The Xenomorphs quickly attack the miners, and the miners are forced to flee.
The miners are pursued by the Xenomorphs, and they are forced to take shelter in a nearby abandoned facility. The miners are trapped in the facility, and they must find a way to survive as they are hunted by the Xenomorphs.
The miners eventually find a way to escape the facility, but they are not out of danger yet. The Xenomorphs are still on the planet, and the miners must find a way to get off the planet before they are killed.
The miners eventually find a way to get off the planet, but they are changed by their experience. They have seen the true horror of the Xenomorphs, and they know that the Weyland-Yutani Corporation is not to be trusted.
This is just a possible plot, of course. There are many other ways to tell a prequel story in the Alien universe. But I think this one would be a good way to introduce the Xenomorphs and the Weyland-Yutani Corporation to a new audience.
Here are some additional details that could be explored in the prequel:
The origins of the Xenomorphs: Where did they come from? How did they evolve?
The purpose of the Xenomorph hive: What is the hive trying to achieve?
The relationship between the Xenomorphs and the Engineers: Are the Xenomorphs a weapon created by the Engineers? Or are they something else entirely?
The role of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation: What does the Weyland-Yutani Corporation know about the Xenomorphs? And what are they planning to do with them?
I think a prequel that explores these questions would be a great addition to the Alien franchise. It would give fans a deeper understanding of the universe and the creatures that inhabit it.
just thought it was interesting to note.
A high-ranking executive would have not been able to act alone in that case, as he would have had to give reason to reverse the decision of the board, which includes other high-ranking executives from government and company.
Also, "connections" refer to cronyism, where people in high positions do favors for each other, and for a common cause. Logically, that would mean that they were all in on it, and that Burke was acting as a front for them.
Additional points:
It was actually pointless to ask Ripley for help because all she could give them she already did in the report to the board and in the brief for the Marines. As depicted in the movie, anything new they needed to know they found out on the planet.
What was also revealed in the movie was that Ripley became a valuable asset not because of space flight experience and all that (I don't think she's in the military, so the point about being trained in combat's questionable) but because the team sent turned out to be incompetent. They didn't have a layout of the colony, which is why they had to draw out blueprints upon arrival (and led by Ripley) and didn't become aware of the nuclear reactor issue until she reminded them.
The meeting between Burke, Gorman, and Ripley was weird:
QuoteLook, we don't know what's going on out there. It may just be a down transmitter. But if it's not, I want you there...as an advisor. That's all.
Ripley: An advisor for what? Oh, you mean they were probably infected and overwhelmed by aliens? So, how did they find out about the alien ship? Was it from the landing location in the flight recorder that I also ignored during the hearing?
What do you want to do with Gorman and his team? Rescue the colonists? Is that the only reason?
QuoteYou wouldn't be going in with the troops. I can guarantee your safety.
Of course, that can't happen; otherwise, we wouldn't have an exciting movie featuring Ripley.
QuoteThese Colonial Marines are some tough hombres, and they're packing state-of-the-art firepower. Nothing they can't handle...right, Lieutenant? GORMAN
We're trained to deal with these kinds of situations.
Ripley: What kind of situations? And why is "state-of-the-art firepower" needed?
QuoteWhat about you? What's your interest in this?
Well, the corporation co-financed that colony with the Colonial Administration, against mineral rights. We're getting into a lot of terraforming...'Building Better Worlds.'
Ripley: In short, both of you only want to ensure the protection of colonists. Against what, Burke? How about you, Lt. Gorman? What has Burke told you?
QuoteWhat if I said I could get you reinstated as a flight officer? And that the company has agreed to pick up your contract?
Ripley: That would mean that you'd have to inform the board about this because that's the only way you can reverse the sentence? Also, what assurances do I have that you will do those if I follow you?
Also, "has agreed to pick up" my contract? That means they know about this?
Last points:
If you think about it, if all of these plus more point to the argument that Burke couldn't have acted alone, then there was no need for Ripley to accompany them or even join them on the ground. Either her full report to the board and her brief would have been enough.
Also, I think Burke was actually very capable but dumb in one regard: there was no need to contact the colony because they'd likely send an wildcatter who would only make matters worse. I think following is character of being scheming and calculating he would send a team to secure the landing location, and follow Ripley's instructions very carefully in order to prevent infection leading to mission failure.
Quote from: Jonjamess on Jun 07, 2023, 04:29:20 PMCameron made the movie, he wrote the screenplay, he directed it. He has stated Burke was working alone.
This is how he's written the story. WY didn't build a colony right next to the Derelict on purpose and then ignore the Derelict for 20 years. Cameron explains this by showing the Company don't believe Ripley.
Yet there is still this one person who's refusing to have any of it! It's just bloody mindedness now.
Burke was working alone, the Company don't believe Ripley. Weyland Yutani from the first 3 movies (as they cease to exist by the fourth) are NOT made out in any way to be cartoon super villans obsessed with the Xenomorph. Only in the 3rd movie do they show interest as by then the realise the Xenomorph is real and obtainable on Fury.
The problem is that the story contains multiple points that work against that claim. The most important one is the source of the landing site, and then linked with what Ripley said about bioweapons development, what happened during the first movie, the role of the Marines who have been under similar "situations" and employed "state-of-the-art firepower" against whatever they encountered that required "state-of-the-art firepower," and both mineral and surface rights.
Put simply, it would have highly illogical for Burke to have acted alone because the company didn't care because both movies show that the company expends a lot of resources, even sacrificing their own personnel and assets, to find and use alien tech and organisms.
Given that, what's more likely is that the company only wanted to show Ripley that they didn't care, just as Burke did similar with his awkward points (that it's just a downed transmitter but in case it isn't, we have all these firepower to handle whatever caused it, so don't worry, Ripley; who knows, you probably don't even have to join us on the ground).
Last point: you don't need to be a "cartoon villain" to sacrifice personnel and assets for monetary gain, as that happened across the first three movies, with the crew and assets sacrificed based on a special order, that unbelievably forgotten as the company explored even more worlds and employed heavily armed Marines to deal with special "situations", and the same giving instructions to the prisoners about what to do. Why? Because it happens in the real world, and if the OP is right, the movie is patterned after that, from Reagan's admin to the Vietnam War.
Think about it: what you think is outrageous is actually true, and is in no way cartoonish.
Quote from: caffeine4671 on Jun 07, 2023, 08:05:31 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Jun 07, 2023, 07:12:23 PMI'm sure they'll come up with something utterly contrived and lore-breaking once again.
I'll never understand why it's so difficult for writers to think a little bit and not contrive something. If dorks on these forums (I mean that positively 
)can come up with explanations, surely a paid and "gifted" (are they really though?)writer working in Hollywood can do one up on that. They never seem to. It's like no one cares.
I'm very certain that Cameron worked hard on this movie, and I appreciate what he did, but it's very difficult to get rid of contrived events. In this case,
The flight recorder is supposed to contain the location of the landing site, but for some weird reason Ripley does not raise it during the hearing.
Burke comes up with a very weird explanation of why they have to send a team to the colony and why Ripley should join them. It's as if he wants to show Ripley that they still don't believe her but that they'll send a heavily armed group because they do. (I specifically refer to "they" because not only Burke but Gorman knows, and Gorman has higher-ups.)
Altogether, the claim that Burke was working alone, such that he's like a "cartoon villain," sounds ridiculous. Given that, how does one avoid these issues but come as close as possible to what happened in the movie?
Ripley argues that they have to investigate the landing location because that's her right to prove her story. Besides, the flight recorder shows that, and unless they can prove that she somehow doctored the logs or manipulated the computer to wake up the crew and change course, then they will have to believe that there was a distress beacon.
The company makes a mistake by sending a wildcat crew, and comms are lost with the colony.
Burke is sent to apologize to Ripley and asks her to help them rescue the colony. She, at first refuses, but after more nightmares realizes that she can stop this by finishing the fight against her nemesis, so she agrees. She gets assurance from Burke that the company won't try to monetize findings, who somehow is able to convince her because the mission is under military jurisdisction. She still doesn't believe him but thinks that the colonists need to be rescued.
The rest of the movie follows.
