Aliens: An Analysis

[Engineer]

There's not much of a discussion though, just denial lol. The movie is pretty straight forward. Nothing implies some grand conspiracy 57 years (or more) in the making... unless of course, you factor in the EU 😜 (*cough* River of pain *cough*)

[SiL]

Yeah the movies are pretty clear that the Company is just a shitty company. They're not above the law, they don't have weird, special privileges. They're just a shit, unethical multinational run by self-serving psychopaths.

[Local Trouble]

Cue further incredulous musings about the shuttle's flight recorder...

[ralfy]

There's a lot of conversation that took place in that inquest meeting we didn't hear. We came into it at the end. We have no idea what ripley told them. She could have given them the exact location in the solar system for where they went, even if it wasn't documented on the flight recorder. Any assumptions about what information was presented, or not presented, in that meeting before we were brought in is purely speculation. What matters is Ripley didn't have enough information/evidence to support her claims so nobody believes her, but Burke looked into it anyway. Burke knew enough to give the colonists a "grid reference." The movie plays out from there... it's pretty straight forward.

And the movie adaptation by Alan Dean foster can and does offer some good details that have been around since the movie released. Many of those details coming from the script even if they didn't make it into the film. So I can understand ignoring EU materials (a lot of it gets pretty convoluted anyway), but if there's any one source outside the movie you'd want to look at, that'd be the one. That being said, I understand the the book doesn't count in this conversation; SiL already brought me up to speed on that...

Even if the grid reference came from her, which itself is already odd, then that would have made the hearing illogical, especially van Leuwen's claim that that the flight recorder only refers to the fact that the ship landed and then resumed course. Ripley would have pushed them to investigate the location during the hearing, and not after the file is closed. On top of that, she only discovers then that there was a colony, something that the board would have raised if they had discussed the location.

In addition, van Leuwen's reason doesn't hold water, i.e., colonists had been there for decades but they have not reported seeing an alien craft. Ripley could have used common sense and told him that it's probably because they didn't go to the specific location.

That's my guess, but the problem is that the location of the derelict ship isn't discussed in the investigation, and van Leuwen was looking for information on the hostile organism in the same flight recorder log. Given the function of a flight recorder, it won't be able to provide that.

The location of the derelict was irrelevant.  The flight recorder was referenced because it was the only piece of evidence that actually corroborated any part of Ripley's story; that being the Nostromo's inexplicable landing on LV-426.

It's relevant for painfully obvious reasons, as it's the only thing that can prove Ripley's claims and allow the company to make a lot of moolah. From the location, one can discover the alien ship, see the eggs inside, and find out what would happen if one comes close to them.

Also, flight recorders don't simply report that the ship landed and resumed course. They also state where the ship landed and what course it took after taking off.

Next, why was the lifeboat flight recorder operating even when the lifeboat was docked and non-operational? Or is it possible that what's referred to is the lifeboat computer, i.e., the one that allows crew to enter hibernational and can operate the ship automatically, and in this case probably received the Nostromo ship's logs, including flight path?

That question should be raised because van Leuwen was looking for encounters with the hostile organism in the lifeboat flight recorder. The latter does not do that; it only records flight path, which as pointed out earlier, should include the location of the landing. Was the flight recorder referred to in the hearing actually the ship's logs?

For what it's worth the flight recorder wouldn't have the specific coordinates of the derelict anyway. Burke probably sent the colonists out to the general area where the Nostromo landed, knowing the derelict was in walking distance.

Yes, but it would have the location where the crew landed. From there, Burke would have given the grid reference where the landing took place and then ask the colony to investigate the grid. But according to van Leuwen, the flight recorder only states that the ship landed and then resumed course; no other details are given. That meant that they had no landing location, and with that no grid reference.

But Burke gave the grid reference from the colony. Where did he get it?

If it came from the flight recorder, then what van Leuwen said during the hearing doesn't make sense.

If it came from Ripley's memory, then what van Leuwen said is pointless and what Ripley did right after the hearing doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I imagine the flight recorder contained information like this:

Spoiler

[close]

Which, by itself, was proof of nothing except that the Nostromo landed and where.

I think the numbers refer to coordinates, time, etc.

Burke and Ripley refer to Burke's cut, which implies that Burke isn't acting alone.

Ok gonna respond to this specifically real quick. This does NOT imply that Burke wasn't working alone. I used to work in a lab for a large company. It was made very clear to me that if I came up with something of value on company-time, then the *thing* or intellectual property would belong to both me and my company. It didn't matter if I had help or not. The logic being that they gave me my paychecks. since it was on company-time, I was being paid, and therefore it becomes shared ownership. Burke is just assuming that if he succeeds in bringing back the organism, that WY would take their piece since he was acting while on company-time.

In addition, there's an interesting reference made earlier from the EU that Burke scrubbed the ship's logs. Wouldn't that be seen by anyone analyzing the logs, e.g., the ship lands, but no place is given?

Since it was me who brought this up, I'll go ahead and say that, if my memory serves me well, the book raises this same question but ripley doesn't get the chance to look into it further since she figured it out after they went to lv-426.

Right, which is why the claim that Burke was working alone doesn't make sense.

About referring to things from an EU, I think that only shows that there are problems with the original story.

[Engineer]

Even if the grid reference came from her, which itself is already odd, then that would have made the hearing illogical, especially van Leuwen's claim that that the flight recorder only refers to the fact that the ship landed and then resumed course. Ripley would have pushed them to investigate the location during the hearing, and not after the file is closed. On top of that, she only discovers then that there was a colony, something that the board would have raised if they had discussed the location.

In addition, van Leuwen's reason doesn't hold water, i.e., colonists had been there for decades but they have not reported seeing an alien craft. Ripley could have used common sense and told him that it's probably because they didn't go to the specific location.

You're missing a very important point. You're basing all of this off of what was said in that meeting. But you're not considering the fact that they had been there for hours; we only saw the last few minutes of the meeting. The ship location, or approximate location (i.e., a grid reference) could have very well been deduced with information from ripley and/or the flight recorder. All they'd need is where did the nostromo land approximately (ripley could have remembered that; it had only been a few days for her), and what direction Dallas, Kane and lambert started walking in. That would give them an approximate area to search. That's all Burke needed when getting the colonists to go search the area.

All that matters is: No one believed ripley. Burke had enough info to provide the colonists with an area to search. That's it.

And ripley DID push for an investigation. She literally told him to go check out lv-426 for himself just before it's revealed there's been a colony there for 20 years.

[ralfy]

Ok gonna respond to this specifically real quick. This does NOT imply that Burke wasn't working alone. I used to work in a lab for a large company. It was made very clear to me that if I came up with something of value on company-time, then the *thing* or intellectual property would belong to both me and my company. It didn't matter if I had help or not. The logic being that they gave me my paychecks. since it was on company-time, I was being paid, and therefore it becomes shared ownership. Burke is just assuming that if he succeeds in bringing back the organism, that WY would take their piece since he was acting while on company-time.

I did explain this to him. He doesn't listen

You didn't have to because that was my point: he couldn't have been working alone because the landing location would have been in the deposition, and taken from either Ripley's memory (which is odd) but never discussed during the hearing, or guesswork from Burke.

There's not much of a discussion though, just denial lol. The movie is pretty straight forward. Nothing implies some grand conspiracy 57 years (or more) in the making... unless of course, you factor in the EU 😜 (*cough* River of pain *cough*)

Given our discussion, apparently not.

Also, ironically the first reference to the EU in response to my recent posts tries to explain away what is supposed to be straightforward. Go figure.

[Engineer]

Right, which is why the claim that Burke was working alone doesn't make sense.

About referring to things from an EU, I think that only shows that there are problems with the original story.

What?!? Burke was absolutely working by himself lmfao

Ok gonna respond to this specifically real quick. This does NOT imply that Burke wasn't working alone. I used to work in a lab for a large company. It was made very clear to me that if I came up with something of value on company-time, then the *thing* or intellectual property would belong to both me and my company. It didn't matter if I had help or not. The logic being that they gave me my paychecks. since it was on company-time, I was being paid, and therefore it becomes shared ownership. Burke is just assuming that if he succeeds in bringing back the organism, that WY would take their piece since he was acting while on company-time.

I did explain this to him. He doesn't listen

You didn't have to because that was my point: he couldn't have been working alone because the landing location would have been in the deposition, and taken from either Ripley's memory (which is odd) but never discussed during the hearing, or guesswork from Burke.

There's not much of a discussion though, just denial lol. The movie is pretty straight forward. Nothing implies some grand conspiracy 57 years (or more) in the making... unless of course, you factor in the EU 😜 (*cough* River of pain *cough*)

Given our discussion, apparently not.

Also, ironically the first reference to the EU in response to my recent posts tries to explain away what is supposed to be straightforward. Go figure.

Lol  uhmkay

[ralfy]

Cue further incredulous musings about the shuttle's flight recorder...

Yes, flight recorders should also contain entries on encounters with hostile organisms.

Even if the grid reference came from her, which itself is already odd, then that would have made the hearing illogical, especially van Leuwen's claim that that the flight recorder only refers to the fact that the ship landed and then resumed course. Ripley would have pushed them to investigate the location during the hearing, and not after the file is closed. On top of that, she only discovers then that there was a colony, something that the board would have raised if they had discussed the location.

In addition, van Leuwen's reason doesn't hold water, i.e., colonists had been there for decades but they have not reported seeing an alien craft. Ripley could have used common sense and told him that it's probably because they didn't go to the specific location.

You're missing a very important point. You're basing all of this off of what was said in that meeting. But you're not considering the fact that they had been there for hours; we only saw the last few minutes of the meeting. The ship location, or approximate location (i.e., a grid reference) could have very well been deduced with information from ripley and/or the flight recorder. All they'd need is where did the nostromo land approximately (ripley could have remembered that; it had only been a few days for her), and what direction Dallas, Kane and lambert started walking in. That would give them an approximate area to search. That's all Burke needed when getting the colonists to go search the area.

All that matters is: No one believed ripley. Burke had enough info to provide the colonists with an area to search. That's it.

And ripley DID push for an investigation. She literally told him to go check out lv-426 for himself just before it's revealed there's been a colony there for 20 years.

According to van Leuwen, the flight recorder only mentioned that the ship landed and then resumed course. Had it mentioned the landing location, then Ripley would have asked them to investigate the site. In which case, the hearing would have been suspended pending investigation of the site. But that didn't happen, because Ripley ends up asking van Leuwen to "just check out LV-426" AFTER the hearing and after the investigation is completed: "FILE CLOSED". That's why the "board of inquiry" concluded that Ripley acted questionably (by destroying the company ship) and is thus suspended as a commercial flight officer. In addition, she is required to undergo psychiatric evaluation.

One reason why the location was never discussed during the hearing is because Ripley was surprised to find out from van Leuwen that a colony had been on the rock for twenty years and had not reported seeing that alien ship. Had the location been discussed during the hearing then Ripley would have known about the existence of the colony because van Leuwen would have given the same excuse.

Right, which is why the claim that Burke was working alone doesn't make sense.

About referring to things from an EU, I think that only shows that there are problems with the original story.

What?!? Burke was absolutely working by himself lmfao

Ok gonna respond to this specifically real quick. This does NOT imply that Burke wasn't working alone. I used to work in a lab for a large company. It was made very clear to me that if I came up with something of value on company-time, then the *thing* or intellectual property would belong to both me and my company. It didn't matter if I had help or not. The logic being that they gave me my paychecks. since it was on company-time, I was being paid, and therefore it becomes shared ownership. Burke is just assuming that if he succeeds in bringing back the organism, that WY would take their piece since he was acting while on company-time.

I did explain this to him. He doesn't listen

You didn't have to because that was my point: he couldn't have been working alone because the landing location would have been in the deposition, and taken from either Ripley's memory (which is odd) but never discussed during the hearing, or guesswork from Burke.

There's not much of a discussion though, just denial lol. The movie is pretty straight forward. Nothing implies some grand conspiracy 57 years (or more) in the making... unless of course, you factor in the EU 😜 (*cough* River of pain *cough*)

Given our discussion, apparently not.

Also, ironically the first reference to the EU in response to my recent posts tries to explain away what is supposed to be straightforward. Go figure.

Lol  uhmkay

If he had been working by himself, then that would mean that he was the only one who had access to the location, or he guessed it.

[Engineer]

You're not making any sense lol

Have fun with this

[SiL]

I ain't picking this back up.

[Engineer]

I ain't picking this back up.

So what you really mean is... you're not picking down what he's putting up? Me neither...

[Local Trouble]

I don't know how many different ways I can explain the obvious.

[Engineer]

I don't know how many different ways I can explain the obvious.

This totally reminded me of the very first line during the inquest meeting scene

"I don't understand this. We have been at this for three and a half hours. Now, how many different ways do you want me to tell the same story?"
-Ripley

Lmfao

[Local Trouble]

@Xenomrph We could use a hand here.

[SiL]

Because I need @Local Trouble to love me again:

If he had been working by himself, then that would mean that he was the only one who had access to the location, or he guessed it.

He was the only one who thought it was worth checking out.

If Van Leuwen requested it be checked out, it would be a huge security situations, as Burke says. But from Van Leuwen's perspective, Ripley wasn't credible -- the shuttle contained no sign of the Alien and the colony on the planetoid had been living there peacefully for decades. So why waste everyone's time and effort on it? She'd been asleep for 57 years, she was suffering PTSD and side-effects of long hypersleep.

Is it the right thing to have done?

Hell no, it's super irresponsible.

Does that mean he didn't do it?

Also no.

"Someone didn't do their job properly" is a perfectly valid explanation. We see it all the time in real life; investigations completely ruined because someone in charge didn't bother checking one piece of evidence that would've solved everything.

Van Leuwen decided Ripley was crazy based on everything else and didn't feel the need to be any more thorough about it. It doesn't need to go further than that.