Quote from: Engineer on Oct 27, 2022, 03:10:18 AMI'm not sure if this has been pointed out already, and I don't feel like going through the last several pages to catch up but anyway...
I'm pretty sure The flight recorder on the shuttle recorded everything. The records were partially erased by Burke prior to the inquest meeting so he could exploit the information/situation later on. The source for this info is the novel adaptation by Alan Dean Foster.
That's why I mentioned that my analysis is based only on the movie. Otherwise, one can can fix any problems through an EU.
In this case, according to van Leuwen, the lifeboat of the flight recorder only reports that they landed and then took off and resumed course. No location is mentioned.
After that, he adds that the flight recorder also didn't contain any entries about the facehugger.
That should be the case if the only function of a flight recorder is to record the location of a ship as it moves. But that also means it should have recorded the location of a ship when it lands.
Meanwhile, van Leuwen refers to the lifeboat flight recorder. That means it was operational throughout; either that or the Nostromo flight recorder was uploaded to that of the lifeboat during the self-destruct sequence.
Finally, why is van Leuwen looking for details about encountering hostile organisms in a flight recorder? Perhaps it's not a flight recorder but a computer that logs all ship activity, status, etc.
Also,
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 27, 2022, 05:15:24 AM@ralfy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_recorder
QuoteThere are two types of flight recording devices: the flight data recorder (FDR) preserves the recent history of the flight through the recording of dozens of parameters collected several times per second; the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) preserves the recent history of the sounds in the cockpit, including the conversation of the pilots. The two devices may be combined into a single unit. Together, the FDR and CVR objectively document the aircraft's flight history, which may assist in any later investigation.
The shuttle pretty clearly had only an FDR. Either it was synced with the mothership's FDR or it operated independently and recorded everything about the landing on LV-426 because it went wherever the Nostromo went. Take your pick.
That's my guess, but the problem is that the location of the derelict ship isn't discussed in the investigation, and van Leuwen was looking for information on the hostile organism in the same flight recorder log. Given the function of a flight recorder, it won't be able to provide that.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2022, 06:07:11 AMThere was no beacon.
Nobody complained about deadly alien organisms.
The investigative team found no evidence of the Alien in the shuttle where she said it was.
Dude had no reason to take her seriously. As Burke said, asking the Colony to check and telling them why would make it a huge security issue, and he probably felt there was no compelling reason to bother.
It's still why everyone died, and they could have checked, but it's not that absurd they didn't with how the situation was presented.
The problem is that the board was looking for information about the hostile organism in the flight recorder logs. It's highly unlikely that they don't know what a flight recorder does; that means the script writer is referring to a ship's log, which includes what the flight recorder records.
In which case, it would have recorded receiving the beacon signal, the change of course to the rock, landing on the rock and recording the location, initial report from Dallas reporting that they followed the company's instructions (else, they wouldn't get their cut) but got into trouble with an organism, and so on. Probably even the interaction between Dallas and Mother were recorded.
After which all of these were uploaded to the lifeboat computer; either that, or the lifeboat computer was operating in parallel to that of Mother, receiving updates from the Nostromo. That sounds logical as that creates system redundancy, which is important for companies and insurers obsessed over their very expensive investments, whether they are minerals or mineral rights, not to mention anything that can gained from alien artifacts and organisms.
The thoroughness of the company and government can also be seen in their points during the same hearing, where they analyze lifeboats centimeter by centimeter, conduct extensive surveys in hundreds of worlds, and discovering and examining indigenous lifeforms. And yet in this case either the location of the alien ship, which is the linchpin in Ripley's defense and the source of potential revenues for the moneybags, is not even mentioned.
That's why the board had to illogically argue that there's no beacon and no one complaining about some alien ship, and Ripley ironically accepts that excuse.
Last point: Ripley finds out that a colony was set up on the rock after the hearing and when the file is closed. That means she didn't bother to conduct basic research on what was happening involving that rock, the company, and the government the last fifty years. In fact, van Leuwen even states it to her as a matter-of-fact, i.e., it's common knowledge, i.e., for anyone who's been reading the news the last five decades.
Maybe Ripley should have hired counsel.
Quote from: Engineer on Oct 27, 2022, 06:12:41 AMSomeone give me the cliff notes version lol what's the debate here exactly?
Please don't make me read the previous pages! Lol
Van Leuwen refers to a flight recorder that only reports that the ship landed, took off, and resumed course. No location is given because it's never mentioned during the hearing and Ripley doesn't use it to defend herself. That's why she accepts the verdict at the end: she's crazy, so she has to undergo psych evaluation, and her license is suspended.
Van Leuwen, though, refers to reports on hostile organisms not found in the flight recorder. But flight recorders aren't supposed to record that. Was the script writer actually referring to ship logs which report more?
Ripley finds out later that Burke got the location and sent it to the colony. Where did he get the location? In the hearing, van Leuwen doesn't refer to it, and Ripley doesn't, either, which is why he accepts the board investigation conclusions.
BTW, a board of inquiry is supposed to investigate rather than pass judgment, and it doesn't look like an internal company affair as government officials are included in the board, together with insurers. If that were more an investigation, then Ripley could have demanded that they investigate the location of the ship. Any claim that colonists aren't complaining doesn't hold water because it's possible that they had not investigated that particular location, which turns out to be the case.
Burke and Ripley refer to Burke's cut, which implies that Burke isn't acting alone. In addition, the only place he could have gotten the location was the ship's logs, which means the board had access to it as well. But that derails the hearing because Ripley could have requested for the same in order to complete her deposition, and allow her to logically compel the board to investigate the location first before resuming the hearing.
There were more points discussed, but this should probably do for now.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2022, 08:09:24 AMRalfy seems to be operating under the assumption that nothing the film says happened actually happened, and that some twisting conspiracy happened instead.
Actually, the opposite. My points are based on what happened in the movie, e.g., references to a lifeboat flight recorder, van Leuwen looking for data from a flight recorder that the latter wouldn't be recording, the landing location that a flight recorder would be recording but isn't even discussed during the hearing, and so on.
In addition, there's an interesting reference made earlier from the EU that Burke scrubbed the ship's logs. Wouldn't that be seen by anyone analyzing the logs, e.g., the ship lands, but no place is given?
Quote from: Kradan on Oct 27, 2022, 12:02:37 PMLOL
Maybe forum members should look at thread titles: "Aliens: An Analysis."
