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Alien: Covenant: One Year Later – AvPGalaxy Podcast #68

Here’s something to help get you through your Monday! We have just uploaded the 68th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast (right-click and save as to download)! Our latest episode sees regular hosts Corporal Hicks, RidgeTop and Xenomorphine reconvene to discuss how we feel about Alien: Covenant after a year to learn about the film, re-watch it and re-consider it.

 Alien: Covenant: One Year Later - AvPGalaxy Podcast #68

We talk about how what we’ve learnt about Alien: Covenant since the film’s release, we briefly discuss the prequel novel, if our opinions on the film have changed and if we’d still want to see Sir Ridley Scott with his hands on the reins of the franchise.

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Comments: 35
  1. PsyKore
    One year on I love the film more. Right up there with the original.

    I like A:C and PROM less and less every time I watch them. There is so much both lore-wise, film-wise and storytelling-wise that I strongly disagree with and find highly lackluster and disappointing.

    I'm not arguing your opinion, but specifically what lore? I always see this complaint about the lore but all we had to go on were eggs left inside a ship. Anything else lore-wise was created and built up in peoples minds.

    I somewhat disagree about the pathogen being able to do anything the film makers want, it can't set you on fire, etc. It atomized into particles in the air due to being deployed at high velocity and air pressure; the ampules shook up like cans of soda, while the stationary ampules just bled when exposed to the air. It's a reactive, chaotic mutagen but there's one constant - it's consistently aggressive across the variety of applications that we've seen. It's basically the perfect weapon. David tried to improve upon perfection; he gave the neomorph armour, made the egg sacs larger, created a facehugger to deploy embryos via the throat, thus he poured all of his sexual neurosis/madness into his designs. His creature's life cycle is "perfect" to him because it's especially sadistic to humans, he chose aesthetic, cruel sexual deviance over efficiency. David was made to be as close to humans as possible but not to perish or pass on his genes. The xenomorph is the culmination of that - a literal rape and death machine. With 10 years of isolation and sexual neurosis it follows that he'd stop caring about efficiency, totally steeped as he is in his own visionary, mad genius.

    This is excellent and is a good case of why I love this movie. It's very interesting.
  2. Bad Replicant
    Thanks! I've taken a peak; I felt like a weary Danny Glover stumbling around an orange spaceship during a heatwave, but that's kind of how I usually feel when I hop the fence into that section.
  3. Corporal Hicks
    This was a good listen after having been away from the site for a while. It seemed appropriate to touch on the anger frothing particularly intensely in certain fandoms at the moment. Although I agree this fanbase can be more 'stable' overall than some others, I think it's fair to say things got ugly after Covenant, to the point (for me) that the discussion just wasn't enjoyable anymore.

    I'm sorry it got that bad for you. Welcome back though.

    Quote
    If nothing else, one thing I hope comes of the Prometheus-Covenant era is for Fox not to be afraid to continue in a direction that's not Ripley-centric, wherever they may go timeline-wise.

    Completely agreed. They need to push on without fear of dragging Ripley with them.

    I somewhat disagree about the pathogen being able to do anything the film makers want, it can't set you on fire, etc. It atomized into particles in the air due to being deployed at high velocity and air pressure; the ampules shook up like cans of soda, while the stationary ampules just bled when exposed to the air. It's a reactive, chaotic mutagen but there's one constant - it's consistently aggressive across the variety of applications that we've seen. It's basically the perfect weapon. David tried to improve upon perfection; he gave the neomorph armour, made the egg sacs larger, created a facehugger to deploy embryos via the throat, thus he poured all of his sexual neurosis/madness into his designs. His creature's life cycle is "perfect" to him because it's especially sadistic to humans, he chose aesthetic, cruel sexual deviance over efficiency. David was made to be as close to humans as possible but not to perish or pass on his genes. The xenomorph is the culmination of that - a literal rape and death machine. With 10 years of isolation and sexual neurosis it follows that he'd stop caring about efficiency, totally steeped as he is in his own visionary, mad genius.

    I really really like this take on it. Not so much literal perfection of the Aliens.

    Thanks to everyone for listening!
  4. The Old One
    I somewhat disagree about the pathogen being able to do anything the film makers want, it can't set you on fire, etc. It atomized into particles in the air due to being deployed at high velocity and air pressure; the ampules shook up like cans of soda, while the stationary ampules just bled when exposed to the air. It's a reactive, chaotic mutagen but there's one constant - it's consistently aggressive across the variety of applications that we've seen. It's basically the perfect weapon. David tried to improve upon perfection; he gave the neomorph armour, made the egg sacs larger, created a facehugger to deploy embryos via the throat, thus he poured all of his sexual neurosis/madness into his designs. His creature's life cycle is "perfect" to him because it's especially sadistic to humans, he chose aesthetic, cruel sexual deviance over efficiency. David was made to be as close to humans as possible but not to perish or pass on his genes. The xenomorph is the culmination of that - a literal rape and death machine. With 10 years of isolation and sexual neurosis it follows that he'd stop caring about efficiency, totally steeped as he is in his own visionary, mad genius.

    <3 <3 <3
  5. Necro II
    I somewhat disagree about the pathogen being able to do anything the film makers want, it can't set you on fire, etc. It atomized into particles in the air due to being deployed at high velocity and air pressure; the ampules shook up like cans of soda, while the stationary ampules just bled when exposed to the air. It's a reactive, chaotic mutagen but there's one constant - it's consistently aggressive across the variety of applications that we've seen. It's basically the perfect weapon. David tried to improve upon perfection; he gave the neomorph armour, made the egg sacs larger, created a facehugger to deploy embryos via the throat, thus he poured all of his sexual neurosis/madness into his designs. His creature's life cycle is "perfect" to him because it's especially sadistic to humans, he chose aesthetic, cruel sexual deviance over efficiency. David was made to be as close to humans as possible but not to perish or pass on his genes. The xenomorph is the culmination of that - a literal rape and death machine. With 10 years of isolation and sexual neurosis it follows that he'd stop caring about efficiency, totally steeped as he is in his own visionary, mad genius.
  6. Bad Replicant
    This was a good listen after having been away from the site for a while. It seemed appropriate to touch on the anger frothing particularly intensely in certain fandoms at the moment. Although I agree this fanbase can be more 'stable' overall than some others, I think it's fair to say things got ugly after Covenant, to the point (for me) that the discussion just wasn't enjoyable anymore.

    I think Ridley should be given the shot if he’s willing to wrap up his prequel story within one more movie. That always seemed like a more realistic choice anyways, instead of going off for another three or four. I don't agree with everything he's done, but I liked Covenant and would at least like to see the story get a real resolution.

    If nothing else, one thing I hope comes of the Prometheus-Covenant era is for Fox not to be afraid to continue in a direction that's not Ripley-centric, wherever they may go timeline-wise.
  7. Saggit
    Great podcast!

    As for the movie, even year later I think it is crap! The most thing that I hate about it (among many things) is how stupid and retarded the characters are. The only explanation I can find is that you don't send the most valuable members of society on a virgin flight to colonise an unknown planet. But why do you send complete idiots is beyond me?!?!

    Cinematography is beatiful though. First 30 minutes is pretty good as well.

    Still, gonna give it a one more shot todays evening. If not for anything else than for guilty pleasure. I can always wach Alien and Alien 3 to see a great ALIEN movie and forget about Prometheus/Covenant/Scotts "visions" and "fresh ideas".
  8. SM
    It's more likely the box office and subsequent Disney sale that have slowed things down.  There were reports since Covenant that they were looking at where to go next.
  9. XENOMORPHOSIS
    There was an article  posted over a year ago, it involved an interview with Ridley Scott taking about Alien Covenant where tells us Alien: Covenant 2 to Start Shooting in 14 Months? That was May of 2017, now its been 14 months July 2018. The less than expected box office results and fan response have Fox reevaluating the series. Hope Ridley's given the chance to make one more entry and end his trilogy leading to the set up of his original Alien. May likely not happen though.
  10. muthur9000
    Great poddie guys, you bring up a lot of good points positive and negative.

    Thanks for the mention as well, if anyone else wants to read what I've found in Alien Covenant you can find it here https://yutani.blog/a-l-i-e-n/

    As for my friend Clayre, her blog is https://gothic-fiction-in-space.tumblr.com/post/164533391538/1-the-romanticism-of-alien-covenant

    Thinking about aesthetic differences between the book and the movie I have changed my mind and I actually enjoy the fact David is the creator, thematically it makes sense because Walter can only copy and imitate but David can do more. And if David was to die at the hand of his creation(or his creation's creation/ Queen and subsequent offspring) which seems to be where this story is going, it would make sense that he is the creator of the Xenomorph.

    Yes Covenant is misanthropic and anti-humanist, nihilistic. But that is/was the whole point of the ALIEN series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I don't quite agree, since the Alien also represents a sort of Nietzschean Übermensch. It literally has our DNA. In that sense the Alien series is life affirming.

    And I do love how Ridley has been able to retroactively change the story to suit that Nietzschean Übermensch storyline/chain of events leading right up to Alien Resurrection. It's just another thing I love about these prequels, it gives me a lot to think about in the sense you get the inspiration from the very first myths right up to horror of the modern day.
  11. AVP-CAPCOM
    One of those rare occurences where I can say- yep I CAN believe its been a (busy) year.

    I re-watched Covenant on download a few months back (after a June 2017 Cinema ticket) and my positive opinion is unchanged. Still a 4/5 movie and third only to ALIEN 5/5 and ALIENS 5/5.

    I also had a suggested YouTube video of an "against the grain" movie reviewer who also liked the film. I agree Covenant greatest strength is David as the central character and his story arc from servant to God with a multitude of subliminal imagery, sound and symbolism.



    Yes Covenant is misanthropic and anti-humanist, nihilistic. But that is/was the whole point of the ALIEN series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  12. TC
    Isolation has a pretty subpar story and writing. I would never want a movie based on it, it's essentially the first movie but slightly bigger.

    Yes. It would need alot of work to turn it into amovie.

    But I think the writers need a bit of defending because I feel like they were hamstrung by technical limitations. For e.g. there are so few times when you really get to interact with NPCs, as though the tech. director didn't feel like the user's CPU could handle many AI people at once. Maybe the xeno AI was just a huge CPU cycle hog.

    It has, however, some really really good world-building with the Sevastopol's downfall and how people reacted to it. That really felt like something out of the Alien universe. The desperation of becoming jobless and hopeless on the far reaches of space affected me way more than the main storyline, through some very simple audio logs and emails. The whole litigation between Seegson and its employees was great and how Weyland-Yutani stepped in to buy the entire station, giving some momentary hope, only to be taken away by the Alien "invasion" was fantastic.

    It was well thought through, but all told via "log entries." If you compare it to film, this is a very curious kind of scriptwriting; it's all setting, with no real ability to build character or plot. (Characterisation is all hearsay, and you have to reconstruct the plot from what you read, more like prose fiction than the realtime drama a play or film gives you). I think I learned a bit about game writing from this.

    But an enjoyable game. And thats what really counts.

    TC
  13. The Old One
    Isolation has a pretty subpar story and writing. I would never want a movie based on it, it's essentially the first movie but slightly bigger.

    It has, however, some really really good world-building with the Sevastopol's downfall and how people reacted to it. That really felt like something out of the Alien universe. The desperation of becoming jobless and hopeless on the far reaches of space affected me way more than the main storyline, through some very simple audio logs and emails. The whole litigation between Seegson and its employees was great and how Weyland-Yutani stepped in to buy the entire station, giving some momentary hope, only to be taken away by the Alien "invasion" was fantastic.

    This.

    I really do want a film though to find a crashed Torrens at some point.
  14. MU-TH-UR 6000
    Isolation has a pretty subpar story and writing. I would never want a movie based on it, it's essentially the first movie but slightly bigger.

    It has, however, some really really good world-building with the Sevastopol's downfall and how people reacted to it. That really felt like something out of the Alien universe. The desperation of becoming jobless and hopeless on the far reaches of space affected me way more than the main storyline, through some very simple audio logs and emails. The whole litigation between Seegson and its employees was great and how Weyland-Yutani stepped in to buy the entire station, giving some momentary hope, only to be taken away by the Alien "invasion" was fantastic.
  15. Baron Von Marlon
    What keeps this franchise going is mythology and unanswered questions. The problem is IF they don't use the myth HR Giger brought us, we will find ourselves empty yet again. At least Prometheus managed to tie HR GIger work (if only a mural or two). Otherwise would have been something like Covenant.

    Covenant didn't provide any mythology and unanswered questions?
    The ship, eggs and the xeno in Covenant were no tie in to Giger's work?
  16. The Old One
    That's ultimately due to the fact that Amanda Ripley has no personality, she's essentially a shell for the player and the players' nostalgic reaction to hearing a message left specifically for them is intended to be the same as Amandas' reaction.

    That's why, as coincidental as the whole scenario is- that's why it works.

    I see the whole thing as a spiritual closure to the Ripley story, more genuine to the tone of the first three than Resurrection.

    It's also left the Torrens floating through space that could end up anywhere for a good writer to exploit.
  17. OpenMaw
    I'd say "aside of the Juggernaut" because everything else in that movie lacks Giger's touch. The murals are vague and incoherent in the background.

    Isolation would have been just as good if Amanda Ripley were somebody else. Change a few of the details, and poof. Works just fine.

  18. acrediblesource
    Unfortunately the right idea to cash in was to keep going with the Ripley family. Anything new would have opened up a can of empty unless they tied it to the films. One thing they did wrong was tie it to the Alien family (ie, the life cycle and all it's members). What keeps this franchise going is mythology and unanswered questions. The problem is IF they don't use the myth HR Giger brought us, we will find ourselves empty yet again. At least Prometheus managed to tie HR GIger work (if only a mural or two). Otherwise would have been something like Covenant.
  19. The Old One
    The one thing Isolation did wrong was to include Amanda Ripley, Alien needs to move away from that family- not towards. Leave them alone.

    The universe is vast, there's plenty other opportunities for stories all their own.
  20. TERMINATOR-SSD
    Scott needs to STAY AWAY....Crapynant is just terrible and has ruined the franchise for me, I saw the film on the first day. I came out of the cinema in rage and utter disappointment along with my other friends. The Alien being a tacked on horror gimmick but all the stupid things that happen in the film was shocking. Everything wrong with... and Honest trailers put it down perfectly on why its terrible. Damn movie, damn Scott... -_-

    If they make more Alien films it needs to stay away from Scotts odd prequels. Hell Alien Isolation was just perfect. They can expand on that. May be Amanda Ripley is still alive or she didn't die the way Burke said in Aliens, a cover up etc.

    Foxnet need to hire Rebellion to make another AvP game to continue after the 2010 game. And another dev needs to make an open world / planets Predator game

    also, love the podcast guys :-)
  21. Jones The Cat
    Great podcast!
    I still have to read the prequel novel. I totally lost interest after I found out its not about David and Shaw...    ???
    By the way, I think there are a lot of fans out there who want to see the painting of giger come to life in form of an engineer home planet. I dont think money is the reason. I really dont know why they're not doing it... It would be fantastatic!  :)
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