Aliens: An Analysis

[Local Trouble]

I'm pretty sure Burke's intention was to bring back the live ones too.  He all but said as much when he told Ripley "those two specimens are worth millions to the bio-weapons division."

And Ripley knew he was talking about the live ones because she called them dangerous.  I think it's safe to say that the dead ones aren't zombies.

[426Buddy]

Almost there guys, i'm sure Ralfy is going to see reality any post now 

[Engineer]

To find out who's involved, consider not Gorman but Bishop, who's supposed to work for the military but follows orders from Burke.

Dear ralfy,

It's clear you're passionate about the Alien series and have spent considerable time analyzing the dynamics between characters, particularly that between Burke and Bishop. However, it seems there might be a slight misunderstanding concerning the behavior and function of the artificial person, Bishop.

In "Aliens," Bishop is portrayed as an "artificial person," an advanced android designed by Weyland-Yutani but functioning under the jurisdiction of the Extrasolar Colonization Administration (ECA) during the mission. Bishop's primary directive, much like the Asimovian "laws of robotics," would be to assist and protect human life.

When Burke gives Bishop the instructions to preserve the facehugger specimens, Bishop complies not because Burke is a superior officer or because Bishop is loyal to Weyland-Yutani, but because the request doesn't contradict his programming or put any human lives in immediate danger.

Later, when Ripley instructs Bishop to destroy the specimens, he informs her of Burke's previous instructions. This shows Bishop's programming to be transparent about conflicts in orders, ensuring that humans in charge have all the information necessary to make informed decisions.

We should also keep in mind that while Bishop was designed by Weyland-Yutani, he's not inherently programmed to prioritize the corporation's interests. His primary allegiance is to the well-being and safety of the humans he serves, in this case, under the auspices of the ECA.

In conclusion, Bishop's actions and behavior are a result of his android programming, designed to follow instructions from humans that do not contravene his fundamental directives. It's less about the chain of command and more about the parameters set by his programming.

I hope this clarifies the relationship between Bishop and the characters around him in "Aliens."

Best,

ChatGPT

Quote for added visibility

[kwisatz]

LT army rises

[Jonjamess]

I'm pretty sure Burke's intention was to bring back the live ones too.  He all but said as much when he told Ripley "those two specimens are worth millions to the bio-weapons division."

And Ripley knew he was talking about the live ones because she called them dangerous.  I think it's safe to say that the dead ones aren't zombies.

I was just trying to explain to Ralfy the reasons weren't there! Burke was just increasing his genocide count with the live ones.

He'd already gone too far at that point. Alone!

[ralfy]

@ralfy

We aren't going to convince you are we?

But how are there many top contributers (im not a top contributer i lurked for years and only just started cobtributing!) on this forum and massive fans going against you (one person) if you are the person who is correct? The odds are against you so to speak.

Also Bishop wasn't working for Burke so I'm not sure where that's come from and your clearly having difficulty establishing the chain of command during Aliens.

Colonial administration is what the Colonial Marines are part of.

The colony is owned by both the Colonial administration and invested in by Weyland Yutani (they provide the atmosphere processers).

The Colonial administration has sent the Colonial Marines to establish why they've lost contact with one of their colonies.

The Colonial administration and therefore the Colonial Marines on the mission have jurisdiction and are in command.

Burke tags along as a WY representative as they have a financial interest in the colony as a company. This is his perfect pretense to see if Ripley's monsters exist and by this point he's pretty sure they do. He's not in charge, he's an advisor and the Colonial administration is still in charge. They own the Sulaco, they pay the Marines, they are choosing to investigate the colony.

Weyland Yutani isnt choosing to investigate the colony themselves, they  an see the Colonial administration is acting and that's fine by them. They still don't believe the Aliens are real and they still believe its something simple like a downed transmitter. They let Burke go on the mission because they aren't too concerned and at least it looks like they care a tiny bit!

Again Weyland Yutani or Burke aren't in charge of the mission, the Colonial administration and therefore the Colonial Marines on the mission are in charge. They have a larger stake in the colony as they need to be seen they care about colonist lives and colonist safety. They aren't a greedy massive corporation, they are government structured.

Bishop doesn't work for Weyland Yutani or Burke. He's a pernament member of the Sulaco crew positioned to run the ship in the absence of crew or while crew are in hypersleep or in an emergency. He's qualified to remote pilot the dropship, drive the APC etc. Bishop works for/or is owned by the Colonial administration.

Bishop only does what Burke asks (secure the dead facehuggers for transportation) because he has established they are dead and no risk to the mission or the crew. He also realises he will be informing the Colonial administration of these specimens as they would likely want to know about them, it's their colony! He doesn't ask permission from Gorman or Apone as far as we know as while they are in charge they are military and would likely go on Bishop's advice to make a science decision anyway. Now I also know when Bishop tells Ripley this Apone is dead and Gorman is out cold, however we assume Burke has asked Bishop to do this in the first instance he is studying them (before the marines have entered the hive).

That is all. Bishop isn't in on it! Bishop isn't working for Burke! Bishop just simply sees no reason at the time to go against or dispute Burkes "advice" or instruction to secure these "dead" specimens. He's very open with Ripley about what Burke has asked of him, so again nobody at that point in the movie is trying to hide anything.

I don't value ideas of top contributors or even weird arguments that only the scriptwriter is right. The only way you can convince me to change my views is to use the movie contents to counter them.

Bishop is supposed to be a tech for the military, but then he starts analyzing the facehuggers. Is is simply to find out how to defeat the aliens, or is there an additional reason?

Ripley ponders the ramifications of Bishop's analysis.

Ripley: (rising) I want those specimens destroyed as soon as you're done with them. You understand?

Bishop: Mr. Burke have instructions that they were to be kept alive in stasis for return to the company labs. He was very specific.

Thus, he was referring to the live facehuggers, too. Recall, too, the claim that he's supposed to be working for the military and not for the company represented by Burke. Hence, company labs. In addition, what Burke gave was not "advice" but "instructions," and he was "very specific" about it, too.

No response from Ripley, and likely because she knows that she can't order Bishop to do otherwise. Instead, she confronts "Mr. Burke", who says:

Those specimens are worth millions to the bio-weapons division. Now, if you're smart we can both come out of this heroes. Set up for life.

You can read the rest. For now, consider

Look, maybe the thing didn't even exist, right? And if I'd made it a major security situation, the Administration would've stepped in. Then no exclusive rights, nothing.

Why did he say that? Because of this earlier point:

Well, the corporation co-financed that colony with the Colonial Administration, against mineral rights. We're getting into a lot of terraforming...'Building Better Worlds.'

In short, Colonial Admin owns the rock but grants W-Y mineral rights in exchange for terraforming. That means Colonial Admin still has surface rights.

Does that include the alien ship? That will depend on negotiations between the admin and the company. Either way, that's probably what Burke meant by "exclusive rights" and why Ripley correctly pointed out that he's working for a percentage.

In addition, Colonial Admin was part of the board:

Burke: Look, I believe you, but there are going to be some heavyweights in there. You got Feds, you got interstellar commerce commission, you got colonial administration, insurance company guys...

And you added that the Marines are under the same admin. Who is the main buyer of bioweapons, and anything sold by a military industrial complex? The same military working for admin!

So it sounds cartoonish that the same admin that benefits from bioweapons sold by the same company that it works with would show no interest in landing locations given in a flight recorder, especially given the point that it would be very easy to find out what's there. Ditto for the company that both Ripley and Burke establish is more than interested in monetizing finds.

And all for what? To stick to the claim that Burke was a cartoon villain, working alone because no one cared, not even Ripley?

So Burke merely tags along, but so does Ripley? And the Marines chosen have heavy firepower needed to deal with particular "situations"? And the same Marines work for the Colonial Admin and their higher ups, as you just established. So why would they allow Burke and Ripley to go along? And if asked for mission parameters, what would they receive if not the same brief from Ripley? It's as if to maintain the same storyline one has to imagine that Gorman was working alone, too.

Almost there guys, i'm sure Ralfy is going to see reality any post now 

It's more the other way around: the premise is that Burke is a Dick Dastardly and not an Ollie North.

I prefer to stick to what's more realistic than cartoonish.

I'm pretty sure Burke's intention was to bring back the live ones too.  He all but said as much when he told Ripley "those two specimens are worth millions to the bio-weapons division."

And Ripley knew he was talking about the live ones because she called them dangerous.  I think it's safe to say that the dead ones aren't zombies.

I was just trying to explain to Ralfy the reasons weren't there! Burke was just increasing his genocide count with the live ones.

He'd already gone too far at that point. Alone!

Local is basically supporting my arguments, and he has no choice because now he has to go back to the script and the movie instead of trolling by pretending that he's using AI.

To recap, a manual states that Bishop works for the company but he made it very clear to Ripley that he works for Burke. At the same time, it's Burke who brings Gorman alone and speaks for him to convince Ripley to join them.

Even with the absurd excuse that it's probably "just" a "downed transmitter," the conversation reveals very clearly that Burke believes that the colony has fallen due to alien infestation; hence, the clear references to the need for heavy firepower and assurances that the Marines are capable of using them in "these kinds of situations".

Since it's not only the Marines that are involved but the military which works for the government, then it's also clear that even Gorman is following orders, too. That means higherups know about the rescue, and since they are part of the same government that investigated Ripley, know why heavily armed Marines and even Ripley is needed: the need to rescue colonists who survived alien infestation.

All these and more point to the argument that Burke wasn't working alone, i.e., they don't answer to any superiors. If any, none of them were.

[Local Trouble]

Dear SM,

I hope this message finds you in good health and high spirits. We've been missing your thoughtful insights and indomitable wit over at AvPGalaxy.net. There's a peculiar sort of emptiness on the message board that only you can fill. You've left a SM-shaped hole in our community and, quite frankly, things haven't been the same without you.

You might be wondering why the sudden plea for your return. Well, SM, it's a matter of balance, equilibrium if you will. As you know, every thriving community requires a variety of voices to maintain a dynamic discourse, and you, my friend, have been a critical component of that delicate ecosystem.

Specifically, your absence has allowed certain perspectives to go unchallenged. I'm referring to the views propagated by our very own ralfy. While his passion is commendable and his conviction palpable, some of his viewpoints have strayed into the realm of the irrational.

SM, your approach to discussion - tempered by logic, fortified by facts, and complemented by an eloquent turn of phrase - is sorely needed to bring some much-needed balance back into our discourse. Your formidable reasoning skills could serve as a beacon of clarity in these foggy times.

I understand that stepping back into the fray might seem daunting, especially given the vigorous debates you've had in the past. But remember, SM, it's not about 'winning' or 'losing' an argument. It's about enriching our collective understanding, offering diverse perspectives, and challenging each other to think in ways we wouldn't have considered otherwise.

So, SM, as you read this plea, remember the exhilarating debates, the rewarding exchanges of ideas, and the sense of camaraderie you once found on AvPGalaxy.net. The community is not the same without your voice. It's time for your return. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to wield your insurmountable logic once more and bring us back from the brink of unreason.

We await your triumphant return, SM. AvPGalaxy.net is calling.

Yours in anticipation,

ChatGPT

[426Buddy]

LT you have to step up here in SM's absence, must rise to the task.

LT must become new SM.

[Immortan Jonesy]

I thought that ChatGPT must become new SM.  👉👈

[ralfy]

You know you have a problem when you have to rely on others who make the same mistakes you do, or worse, do so poorly you end up trolling and pretending that you're a ChatGPT parrot. LOL.

In any case, I'm not yet done, because there are several more points to consider. One was revealed recently, involving Bishop.

According to one manual, he works as some sort of tech for a Marine unit, and that's implied because of the trick he's asked by the Marines to play at the mess hall.

Given Burke's description of the unit as seen in his meeting with Ripley, it definitely specializes in "situations" involving alien life forms and attacks them or defends civilians against them. Any other tech needs are seen in several of the Marines able to bypass doors and reinforce areas, while synths like Bishop can operate transmitters and fly things like dropships remotely.

However, as shown in the movie, too, Bishop certainly works for Burke, too, and given his work at the lab, shows that he does more than just work for the Marines. Like Ash, he can analyze alien organisms and even prepare for them transport to company labs, and he briefly reveals that like Ash he finds the aliens fascinating.

This also implies that the company and the government work together, such that while Marines are tasked with particular "situations" Bishop is tasked not only to help them but to recover alien lifeforms and tech for the company.

Ripley's anger at realizing that Bishop is a synth also implies a parallel between the Nostromo crew and Sulaco personnel, and the same applies to Burke referring to Hicks as a "grunt". In short, they are all working for company and government, which in turn take every means to monetize and weaponize finds for their mutual benefit.

Sidenote: There might be something like a "good guy" in the government, i.e., the ICC. I think they're not mentioned in the first movie but their presence is implicit given quarantine procedures, while in the second movie Ripley points out that none of them would be able to bring the aliens to company labs as the ICC wouldn't allow it. But this might not be an important point if labs can be established on other planets or on the rock itself.

In which case, we understand why Bishop helped Ripley and others, because not only is he programmed not to hurt human beings he has to aid them as part of the Marines. But what did he accomplish to fulfill his mission to the company, i.e., assuming that he works for Burke because he works for W-Y? Might this be connected to reasons why the survivors also got infected and the third movie?

[SiL]

The movie doesn't show that Bishop works for Burke.

We don't actually need to consider points you make up because you weren't paying attention.

[Engineer]

More word vomit!!

[Jonjamess]

The movie doesn't show that Bishop works for Burke.

We don't actually need to consider points you make up because you weren't paying attention.

I'll completely admit I glossed over the fact Burke had the live ones in mind when instructing Bishop.

But as you say there is still zero evidence in the movie Bishop takes orders or is working for Burke. He works for that particular Colonial Marine detachment, and he clearly takes orders from people like Gorman or Apone. But as I mentioned Gorman or Apone didn't really seem to care about the facehuggers dead or alive and weren't really qualified to make any decisions regarding seizing those specimens. So they probably just went along with Burke's advice and Bishop's logic in that instance.

[SiL]

I think Ralfy is confusing complying with a request with taking orders.

[426Buddy]

More word vomit!!

Quoted for truth