Aliens: An Analysis

[Local Trouble]

Finally, it looks like you're agreeing with me.

I wouldn't count on that.

I ignored SM because he resorted to personal attacks.

Citation needed.

[ralfy]

So, let's recap some of these points:

Either the lifeboat oddly records what the Nostromo was doing or that the Nostromo log was uploaded to the lifeboat computer. Also, for all advanced tech, it appears that some systems are still primitive: the Nostromo has computers that can navigate the ship and take care of the crew while they are in hibernation, but for some odd reason will record only simple facts about changing course and landing, but not landing location.

And if the upload is automatic, it appears that that process is also primitive, as the computer probably didn't upload any logs about Dallas' conversation with Mother or even things like Ash's report on the face-hugger he was examining.

Burke has the location of the derelict ship, and we have no idea where he got it. If he probably imagined it, then that explains why he and the rest of the board don't believe Ripley. If he got it from the same logs, then that means what I wrote above is negated, and that he and the rest should have logically believed Ripley and wouldn't have needed her for investigating the matter further.

Burke sends the location to the colonial admin and instructs him to send someone to check out the place. If he probably imagined the location, then that explains why he was the only one who bothered to contact the colony. That means any cut he was thinking of getting must involve the point that "mineral rights" that the company and government had on the rock essentially involves anything found on the rock.

If he got the location from the log, then that means he wouldn't have been acting alone as everyone else in the board would have been examining the log, too. That would also mean that his cut would be lower as the rest would want a piece of the action, too. Burke would have accepted that because at least the colonial admin and the wildcat team would have wanted a cut, too.

He tells Ripley that they lost contact with the colony. That either means they sent the instructions to investigate the location and got nothing after that or that they received more and lied to Ripley so that she could be convinced to join them. If it's the former, then that means for some absurd reason the colony comms suddenly go down right after the Jordens return with the face-hugger. In which case, they would have just sent a regular ship with some security and supplies. If it's the latter, then that means they should have at least heard about the discovery of the ship, and probably the first face-hugger which infects one of the Jordens. That might explain why Burke decides to send an armed expedition and not simply one to deal with a mere "blackout situation."

The expedition sent is actually experienced in "bug hunts," is heavily armed, but appears to find some missions as routine, and for some reason is led by a greenhorn (their actual superior was probably not available). The ship that they use appears to be essentially a troop carrier with little by way of facilities to store things like alien organisms and artifacts, they only have the equivalent of a science officer but likely a tech synth attached to their team, little by way of techs needed to repair anything in the colony or scientists to recover alien material, only one medic and flight crew for itself and barring a colony of dozens of families, no backup or even second team to secure the perimeter of the derelict ship, etc.

This implies that they (Burke and other officials) were rushing, which is why the marines' briefing takes place onboard, that they were assuming that the colony was wiped out or would be left (they'd probably figure out how to pay off the marines in exchange for their silence, together with Ripley, or worse), which is why they would probably be interested in acquiring at least several alien eggs (or face-huggers if the eggs open automatically given nearby hosts), and probably send more expeditions for more.

One more thing: we don't know what happened after the movie. They had the location of the derelict ship, which meant they could have recovered eggs even after the colony blew up. If they didn't, then that meant Burke acted alone, and that for some absurd reason he had managed to commander a military troop carrier and personnel without the company or the government knowing. That also meant that he had only guessed the location of the ship, and that the location never showed up in any logs.

In short, it all boils down to Burke guessing the location of the alien craft, and was lucky to get it right.

Finally, it looks like you're agreeing with me.

I wouldn't count on that.

I ignored SM because he resorted to personal attacks.

Citation needed.

Well, he just did, which is why he ended with "And?" As for the latter, I don't want to bother unignoring him as enough forum members here are responding to my points.

Maybe you can help SiL out.

I sometimes wonder how Burke might have confirmed the derelict's presence without endangering the colonists and without turning it into a "major security situation."

It may have been enough to instruct them to report back at first sight of anything unusual and to NOT investigate further unless they received explicit instructions to do so from corporate HQ (under penalty of total forfeiture of shares).

More important, where did he get the location? The board only refers to the part that the Nostromo changes course and lands, but no location is discussed. Also, for some reason, the lifeboat flight recorder was operating at the same time as the Nostromo throughout.

I think the forfeiture of shares refers to the Nostromo crew refusing to investigate the signal.

Finally, I don't see the point about a "major security situation" as discovery of the ship even from outside would have already alarmed the ones who discovered it.

That means the only logical thing to do was to tell the colonial admin that they have reports of an alien craft in that location, that he should not tell anyone else in exchange for a nice cut, that he should send someone trusted or even go himself with a trusted team (even though it would have taken a week to travel to the location, I think), not to enter the ship or else they might get infected, and contact the company (maybe bring some sort of patch-up or repeater so that they can radio back from the site) about the discovery.

Of course, if Burke was only guessing the location, that that explains much of what happened in the movie.

I imagine that's exactly what he was expecting; someone would go out, find a giant alien construction, and call back saying "Hey, we found a giant alien construction." If Russ Jordan hadn't gone inside to take a look it's entirely possible everything could've been avoided and Burke could've retired early very well off.

He would have because he gave the grid reference. He would not have expected it if he had guessed the location.

If it's the former, where did he get the location? It's not mentioned in the hearing, and board members pointed out that the colony had been there for decades and found no such thing.

And if there's no other source for the location, then that means Burke guessed that the alien ship was in that specific grid, and he was lucky.

[Local Trouble]

More important, where did he get the location?

From the flight recorder.

The board only refers to the part that the Nostromo changes course and lands, but no location is discussed.

Are you actually suggesting that it wasn't in the flight logs just because Van Leuwen didn't bother to go into unnecessarily granular detail?

Also, for some reason, the lifeboat flight recorder was operating at the same time as the Nostromo throughout.

In the event of an emergency launch, I'd assume that the shuttle's flight recorder would have little value to an investigation if it didn't run at the same time as the Nostromo's.  In fact, the Sulaco's EEV did the very same thing in the following movie.

[SiL]

I think everything has been said. The film is pretty clear on what happens; if people want to invent their own stories, they are welcome to do so, but there's no real point in discussing it further.

[Local Trouble]

Did he ghost us?  Is it going to be another four years?

[ralfy]

More important, where did he get the location?

From the flight recorder.

The board only refers to the part that the Nostromo changes course and lands, but no location is discussed.

Are you actually suggesting that it wasn't in the flight logs just because Van Leuwen didn't bother to go into unnecessarily granular detail?

Also, for some reason, the lifeboat flight recorder was operating at the same time as the Nostromo throughout.

In the event of an emergency launch, I'd assume that the shuttle's flight recorder would have little value to an investigation if it didn't run at the same time as the Nostromo's.  In fact, the Sulaco's EEV did the very same thing in the following movie.

Yes, that was my point: in order to make the story believable, the lifeboat flight recorder had to be operating the same time as that of the Nostromo throughout, and even though it wasn't operating and still docked to the Nostromo.

Obviously a flight recorder can only corroborate some of Ripley's points, as it only plots the vessel movement. What they needed are the ships logs, similar to what Ripley was recording at the end the first movie. For some weird reason, with technology to develop computers that can operate not just vessel movement but everything in a ship (which is why its crew can remain in hibernation for long periods of time), not to mention synths that can operate like human beings, they couldn't come up with systems to automatically upload logs (not just flight movement) to computers in lifeboats. That's why the only thing that the board and Ripley had to start with is the location of the alien ship, which for some weird reason was recorded by a docked lifeboat.

That means throughout the hearing Ripley would have argued for them to check the location and confirm her claim before resuming the hearing, and yet that was never mentioned in the hearing as depicted in the movie. From what I remember, Ripley bothers to ask them to do that only after the hearing, after which she's told that they had a colony on the rock for the last two decades and didn't see any alien craft.

That means Ripley didn't bother to do research on the matter to defend herself, such as finding out if they had found the rock the last fifty years she was gone and if they had seen anything at least on the location given in the flight recorder and didn't bother to raise the point about investigating the location until after the file is closed.

Finally, and most important, everyone in the board and Ripley had information on the grid reference of the ship. That means for some reason no one in the same board didn't bother to continue investigations after the file is closed except for Burke, or Burke was acting on orders of the company and government allies and didn't want Ripley to know.

But assuming that Ripley still had enough common sense, then she could have easily assumed the following when Burke approached her for help:

The issue about a downed transmitter and Burke accompanying them to protect mineral rights can be set aside. The reason why they are sending a heavily armed expedition is because someone told the colony to go to the alien ship, and because of that the colony got screwed in the same was as the Nostromo crew. That's why they want her to join them, as she has the most knowledge about the aliens.

Since the colony was already screwed, then likely they are sending an expedition to recover alien artifacts and organisms. And yet she's against that.

To gain access to a military vessel, Burke could not be acting alone. Even his promise of reinstating her flight status doesn't hold water unless the company puts it in writing.

Finally, Ripley probably realized all of that, but I suspect that she was struggling with the desire not to have others exposed to the aliens vs. accepting the penalty imposed by the board given the conclusion that there are no aliens. Since the location of the ship was known and it appears that they now have to believe Ripley but still want confirmation, then she would have concluded that they were going to throw her to the wolves again.

Which is what happened.

I think everything has been said. The film is pretty clear on what happens; if people want to invent their own stories, they are welcome to do so, but there's no real point in discussing it further.

Why not? This whole board is about a franchise where the first movie was made more than four decades ago.

Also, the points I raised stem from events occurring in the movie, so I'm not exactly inventing stories. Rather, it's an analysis of the story of the movie, which is title of the thread.

Did he ghost us?  Is it going to be another four years?

I'll continue posting as long as others have questions about what I shared or additional points. In short, follow what you're doing now.

[SiL]

Did he ghost us?  Is it going to be another four years?

Seems not.

[Engineer]

I'm not sure if this has been pointed out already, and I don't feel like going through the last several pages to catch up but anyway...

I'm pretty sure The flight recorder on the shuttle recorded everything. The records were partially erased by Burke prior to the inquest meeting so he could exploit the information/situation later on. The source for this info is the novel adaptation by Alan Dean Foster.

[SiL]

The discussion is only using the film.

In the film, the flight recorder only has the flight data -- where the ship went, what it did (land, take off, explode), not why.

[Engineer]

The discussion is only using the film.

In the film, the flight recorder only has the flight data -- where the ship went, what it did (land, take off, explode), not why.

Fair enough

[Local Trouble]

@ralfy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_recorder

There are two types of flight recording devices: the flight data recorder (FDR) preserves the recent history of the flight through the recording of dozens of parameters collected several times per second; the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) preserves the recent history of the sounds in the cockpit, including the conversation of the pilots. The two devices may be combined into a single unit. Together, the FDR and CVR objectively document the aircraft's flight history, which may assist in any later investigation.

The shuttle pretty clearly had only an FDR.  Either it was synced with the mothership's FDR or it operated independently and recorded everything about the landing on LV-426 because it went wherever the Nostromo went.  Take your pick.

[Engineer]

@ralfy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_recorder

There are two types of flight recording devices: the flight data recorder (FDR) preserves the recent history of the flight through the recording of dozens of parameters collected several times per second; the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) preserves the recent history of the sounds in the cockpit, including the conversation of the pilots. The two devices may be combined into a single unit. Together, the FDR and CVR objectively document the aircraft's flight history, which may assist in any later investigation.

The shuttle pretty clearly had only an FDR.  Either it was synced with the mothership's FDR or it operated independently and recorded everything about the landing on LV-426 because it went wherever the Nostromo went.  Take your pick.

Makes sense to me it had its own flight recorder and operated independently, because as you point out, the shuttle went where the  nostromo went, so their records were the same.

[Local Trouble]

@ralfy

Also worth mentioning: Ripley told the board that the derelict was transmitting a beacon.  The simple fact that no one else detected that beacon for over 20 years (especially the colonists who actually lived there) is probably another huge reason he didn't believe her or bother with investigating further.

[SiL]

There was no beacon.

Nobody complained about deadly alien organisms.

The investigative team found no evidence of the Alien in the shuttle where she said it was.

Dude had no reason to take her seriously. As Burke said, asking the Colony to check and telling them why would make it a huge security issue, and he probably felt there was no compelling reason to bother.

It's still why everyone died, and they could have checked, but it's not that absurd they didn't with how the situation was presented.

[Engineer]

Someone give me the cliff notes version lol what's the debate here exactly?

Please don't make me read the previous pages! Lol