Aliens: An Analysis

[Local Trouble]

I sometimes wonder how Burke might have confirmed the derelict's presence without endangering the colonists and without turning it into a "major security situation."

It may have been enough to instruct them to report back at first sight of anything unusual and to NOT investigate further unless they received explicit instructions to do so from corporate HQ (under penalty of total forfeiture of shares).

[SiL]

I imagine that's exactly what he was expecting; someone would go out, find a giant alien construction, and call back saying "Hey, we found a giant alien construction." If Russ Jordan hadn't gone inside to take a look it's entirely possible everything could've been avoided and Burke could've retired early very well off.

[Local Trouble]

I'd be surprised if Burke gave them even minimal instructions against investigating.  If he had, Ripley might have accepted that as a "warning" instead of threatening to crucify him.

[SiL]

Warning them at all would turn it into a security issue. He probably just said "go look". The DC seems to suggest as much.

Really everything is the ECA's fault. Burke withheld information to try to make a claim. If the ECA had requested someone check out the reference as part of their investigation, they could've given specific instructions and warnings and made it a huge security issue because they weren't trying to make themselves rich, they were investigating the loss of a spaceship and its crew.

Their laziness cost lives, dammit.

[ralfy]

The colonists being given the coordinates is in the theatrical cut. Ripley confronts Burke about it.

Burke is acting alone. Nobody takes Ripley seriously, so he takes a chance sending them out to have a look. If it works, he'll get the claim.

The DC shows us the colonists leave after the inquest. Even without the DC it's clear why this would be the case - if Burke sends them first, it validates Ripley's story and all of the government bodies step in to investigate. He says as much.

He's trying to keep it low key until he can claim the find. The problem is the colonists find exactly what Ripley said they would and they all die. As Ripley points out - and Burke takes seriously - he's responsible for their deaths.

Those together explain why he never admits to sending the colonists out before they arrive. The marines aren't sent by WY, they're sent by the government. He jumps on as corporate liaison but has no real authority.

Everyone is unprepared because Burke made a "bad call" and basically spends the movie trying to profit from it while avoiding responsibility for the loss of the colony. Nobody ever took Ripley seriously but him so everyone thinks it's a routine blackout situation. She's there "just in case" because it happened to be where she said there was a space alien, but nobody really thinks it's the case.

Burke being a selfish asshole explains what we see in the film just fine.

Where did Burke get the coordinates? If it came from Ripley's deposition, then the company and even the gov't would have known about it because that would have been used in the board of inquiry.

For Burke to act alone, then would mean that the company and gov't didn't bother to just contact the colony and verify the location of the ship. That sounds absurd, especially given the point that large amounts of money are at stake in that colony (e.g., mineral rights) and that both are more than interested in profiting from such finds and employing bioweapons, not to mention what the company was willing to do, i.e., sacrifice personnel and assets, to acquire such finds, as shown in the first movie.

Apparently, the inquest didn't end because they decide to send a military expedition, which implies that what happened might be more than just a "blackout situation."

Also, I think what Burke would have gotten was not claim of the discovery but a percentage of profits from the find, which ties up with what happened to the space truckers in the first movie, the wildcatters who found the ship, etc. Everyone involved gets a cut.

About Burke not admitting that he sent the colonists to the ship, here's what I think happened: only Burke and a small group of company and government officials are involved because bioweapons research appears to be a shady business. That's why Burke had to figure out how to bring back specimens past ICC quarantine, and why even the marines were barely briefed concerning their mission.

This might also explain why they argued that they didn't believe Ripley even though she had already given them the location of the ship, although it's absurd that Ripley didn't raise that point after they suspended her license.

This might also explain why only one wildcat group was sent, and only the colony manager would be informed of any findings: the discovery had to be limited to only a small number of people, which included Ripley.

Why, then, was Ripley asked to join the expedition? Because they wanted to make sure that the mission would be successful because she was the one most informed about the creatures? The catch is that they couldn't give more details to the marines, who also didn't take the issue seriously because they also thought that it was merely the equivalent of a "blackout situation," that is, just a "bug hunt." In addition, what else would have Ripley shared? It seems that she said everything that she wanted to say during the inquiry and in her deposition, so she was actually not needed; even disks were already prepared for the marines to study.

Why didn't they send a better-prepared team? My guess is that the comms actually didn't go down, and that the few company (including Burke) and gov't officials that were privy to colony reports knew what was happening in colony. Following Ripley's story and the Jordens' mistake in entering the ship, they knew that the colony was doomed. Thus, they sent the military not on a rescue mission but on one to recover alien artifacts; hence, an armed contingent with one synth scientist and only one company rep, and all of them couldn't be informed about the real reason why they were sent.

But didn't Ripley know the location of the derelict ship? She prepared disks for the marines, and even if Burke had scrubbed that part from the reports should could have told them about the existence of the ship and its coordinates verbally.

To avoid that complication, and given the fact that everything Ripley could tell them is already in the deposition, then they could have just avoided all of that completely and send a better-prepared expedition, consisting of soldiers and mercs involved in bioweapons research plus scientists who can carefully capture and store artifacts and specimens. Then, as part of clandestine operations, go past ICC quarantine easily.

And make sure to give Burke his cut and promote him to become one of the boys.

I imagine that's exactly what he was expecting; someone would go out, find a giant alien construction, and call back saying "Hey, we found a giant alien construction." If Russ Jordan hadn't gone inside to take a look it's entirely possible everything could've been avoided and Burke could've retired early very well off.

I'm guessing that everyone in the board of inquiry was as smart as Burke, i.e., they received the grid reference from Ripley's deposition and would have contacted the colony admin to check it out. The catch is that they didn't want too many people to know even about the inquiry because that would make it difficult for them to acquire alien artifacts and specimens for gain of function research.

At the same time, they would have been smart enough to consider the rest of Ripley's story, as stated in the deposition: they made the mistake of entering the ship and getting infected. That means they could have ordered to colony admin to select the team carefully and not to enter the ship. For some reason, they didn't say that, so a mom-and-pop wildcat pair was sent.

A more logical move would be to send a trained team to investigate. That sounds impractical, but we have to figure out where Ripley got the grid reference. By speculating on that, we can see why Ripley's story becomes believable.

I'd be surprised if Burke gave them even minimal instructions against investigating.  If he had, Ripley might have accepted that as a "warning" instead of threatening to crucify him.

That also puts the whole investigation of Ripley to question, as the grid reference came from her.

That means this might have been an internal investigation as it involves company personnel and property, which means for members of the board the company sent its own man, Burke, and only government officials who would be privy to questionable research on alien artifacts and specimens. Otherwise, more people would know about Ripley's report.

In front of Ripley, they would make it appear that they didn't believe her even though they already got everything they needed from her deposition, including the location of the ship. And without her knowing, work with the colony to confirm her claims.

Finally, where did Ripley get the grid reference? Did she memorize it, or is it part of some logs recorded by the Nostromo computer?

[SiL]

The flight recorder has the data of the Nostromo landing on the planet. This is stated.

Van Leuwen dismisses the idea of even checking out the grid reference because the colonists haven't complained of anything so he doesn't think Ripley is credible. This is stated.

Burke takes the opportunity to check out the reference seeing nobody else is. He doesn't warn the colonists because it would turn it into a security situation and he'd lose his cut. This is stated.

The marines think checking out a colony because of a communications blackout is normal, if boring. This is stated.

If the investigative team had ordered Hadley's Hope to send a prepared team to the derelict to verify Ripley's claims instead of dismissing her, everything could've been avoided. But they didn't, allowing Burke to set his plan in motion, leading to a series of catastrophes.

By the time of the movie everyone involved in the original Special Order would likely be retired, dead, or both. We know the Company had no interest in investigating Ripley's claims at that time because the film shows they don't. Burke acting alone is proof of that.

[ralfy]

The flight recorder has the data of the Nostromo landing on the planet. This is stated.

Van Leuwen dismisses the idea of even checking out the grid reference because the colonists haven't complained of anything so he doesn't think Ripley is credible. This is stated.

Burke takes the opportunity to check out the reference seeing nobody else is. He doesn't warn the colonists because it would turn it into a security situation and he'd lose his cut. This is stated.

The marines think checking out a colony because of a communications blackout is normal, if boring. This is stated.

If the investigative team had ordered Hadley's Hope to send a prepared team to the derelict to verify Ripley's claims instead of dismissing her, everything could've been avoided. But they didn't, allowing Burke to set his plan in motion, leading to a series of catastrophes.

By the time of the movie everyone involved in the original Special Order would likely be retired, dead, or both. We know the Company had no interest in investigating Ripley's claims at that time because the film shows they don't. Burke acting alone is proof of that.

But the Nostromo was lost. Were the logs sent to the shuttle? If so, then the whole hearing would have sounded absurd, as Ripley would have demanded that they study the logs and check the location given in it.

In addition, is it possible that given more advanced technology, like development of synths, we're looking at not simply logs from flight recorders but logs from computers that do flight recording and more, like navigating ships while crews are asleep, stopping ships, waking up crews, and ordering them to investigate signals following their contracts? Would Ash's analysis of the face-hugger, among others, also be recorded, together with Dallas' reports, requesting information from Mother, etc., or is tech spotty: advanced synths and computer logs, but the only thing uploaded to the shuttle are flight recorder logs?

Van Leuwen's statement makes no sense at all, and even Ripley would have seen through that, i.e., if the logs were there to be accessed, unless she accepts the implication that the logs were tampered with, which would have included not just the location of the ship but the computer ordering the crew to investigate the signal given company regulations.

If Burke got a cut, then that meant that he wasn't acting alone. And if he chose not to warn them, then he would have known, assuming that he believed what Ripley said, that they would enter the ship, get infected, and ironically start the security situation that he wanted to avoid in the first place.

The marines would have known knew that they weren't sent simply because of a communications blackout but because of a "bug hunt." That's why they came with a lot of firepower, and from what was gathered in the movie, specializes in "bug hunts." That's why they even had a bug stomper logo in their dropship.

It's absurd that they dismissed Ripley's claims given the point that they had at least the flight recorder logs. And if your claim is right that Burke believed Ripley and wanted to avoid a security situation, then he would have sent a prepared team and warned it about entering the ship instead of a mom-and-pop wildcat pair, and thus avoid what happened to the Nostromo crew. Ditto for the armed expedition with its greenhorn lieutenant.

Finally, the company had been exploring hundreds of worlds and examining indigenous lifeforms. The marines had been dealing with similar, i.e., based on their references to bug hunts and whatever they meant by Arcturians. And then there's the end of the third movie. All these plus the logs and the armed expedition show that the Special Order was not stopped, and that throughout both company and government continued with plans to acquire alien artifacts and speciments for profit and gain of function.

[Local Trouble]

The above post is why we still need SM.

[[cancerblack]]

The hero we need, but not the one we deserve right now.

[SiL]

But the Nostromo was lost. Were the logs sent to the shuttle? If so, then the whole hearing would have sounded absurd, as Ripley would have demanded that they study the logs and check the location given in it.

Did you watch the film?

She does. They said they don't want to because the colonists haven't complained of anything.

Van Leuwen's statement makes no sense at all, and even Ripley would have seen through that, i.e., if the logs were there to be accessed, unless she accepts the implication that the logs were tampered with, which would have included not just the location of the ship but the computer ordering the crew to investigate the signal given company regulations.

They say there went over the flight recorder and that it mentions them landing, taking off, and self destructing - aka, the actual flight data, not special orders.

If Burke got a cut, then that meant that he wasn't acting alone. And if he chose not to warn them, then he would have known, assuming that he believed what Ripley said, that they would enter the ship, get infected, and ironically start the security situation that he wanted to avoid in the first place.

If Burke got a cut it would mean the company would exploit the resources he found and pay him a royalty or similar dispensation.

Burke didn't know that they would enter the derelict. He didn't even know if there was a derelict. He might have guessed it was possible but he probably hoped they wouldn't to avoid everything getting out of hand.

The marines would have known knew that they weren't sent simply because of a communications blackout but because of a "bug hunt." That's why they came with a lot of firepower, and from what was gathered in the movie, specializes in "bug hunts." That's why they even had a bug stomper logo in their dropship.

The marines are dismissive of the idea it's anything other than a communication blackout. The fact it happened near where Ripley said there might be something is the only reason she tags along, but nobody seriously considers that the reason.

It's absurd that they dismissed Ripley's claims given the point that they had at least the flight recorder logs.

So the film is absurd. And?

[SiL]

The above post is why we still need SM.

I'm trying to pick up where he left off 4 years ago...

[BlueMarsalis79]

No one should even try to fill those shoes though, they were emptied for a reason in the first place.

[SiL]

Check how old this thread is and who Ralfy started off talking to.

[Local Trouble]

No one should even try to fill those shoes though, they were emptied for a reason in the first place.

 

[ralfy]

But the Nostromo was lost. Were the logs sent to the shuttle? If so, then the whole hearing would have sounded absurd, as Ripley would have demanded that they study the logs and check the location given in it.

Did you watch the film?

She does. They said they don't want to because the colonists haven't complained of anything.

Van Leuwen's statement makes no sense at all, and even Ripley would have seen through that, i.e., if the logs were there to be accessed, unless she accepts the implication that the logs were tampered with, which would have included not just the location of the ship but the computer ordering the crew to investigate the signal given company regulations.

They say there went over the flight recorder and that it mentions them landing, taking off, and self destructing - aka, the actual flight data, not special orders.

If Burke got a cut, then that meant that he wasn't acting alone. And if he chose not to warn them, then he would have known, assuming that he believed what Ripley said, that they would enter the ship, get infected, and ironically start the security situation that he wanted to avoid in the first place.

If Burke got a cut it would mean the company would exploit the resources he found and pay him a royalty or similar dispensation.

Burke didn't know that they would enter the derelict. He didn't even know if there was a derelict. He might have guessed it was possible but he probably hoped they wouldn't to avoid everything getting out of hand.

The marines would have known knew that they weren't sent simply because of a communications blackout but because of a "bug hunt." That's why they came with a lot of firepower, and from what was gathered in the movie, specializes in "bug hunts." That's why they even had a bug stomper logo in their dropship.

The marines are dismissive of the idea it's anything other than a communication blackout. The fact it happened near where Ripley said there might be something is the only reason she tags along, but nobody seriously considers that the reason.

It's absurd that they dismissed Ripley's claims given the point that they had at least the flight recorder logs.

So the film is absurd. And?

According to Leuwen, it's the lifeboat log, not that of the Nostromo, and oddly enough records the fact that the Nostromo (actually, the landing craft of the Nostromo) set down on the rock, and that's it. Wouldn't the record include the location of where it landed?

And why was the lifeboat flight recorder operating and recording what the Nostromo was doing? Or are they logs uploaded to the lifeboat from the Nostromo?

The point that they didn't need to investigate because colonists didn't complain sounds ridiculous because colonists never found the ship until the location was reported to them. Ripley could have easily pointed that out in the hearing, unless the location was never given in the log. In which case, where did Burke get his information? The only logical source would have been the same logs, which means everyone in the board would have known.

The point that Burke gets a cut means he couldn't have been working alone, and the only logical source of the location pretty much invalidates even the possibility of that.. And, if as you pointed out, he believed Ripley, then he would have commonsensically assumed that anyone who enters the ship risks getting infected.

Why would you need an armed expedition to deal with a comms blackout? Even grunts that likely specialize in "bug hunts" and carrying lots of firepower would commonsensically ask that. Likely, they were not serious about the matter because they thought it was just another "routine" bug hunt. They even joked about having fun with colony gals after finishing their mission, which reminded them of Arcturians. (What was the latter about?)

Finally, it looks like you're agreeing with me. That's my analysis.

The above post is why we still need SM.

I don't think SiL needs SM.

The above post is why we still need SM.

I'm trying to pick up where he left off 4 years ago...

My recent posts has additional points to strengthen my analysis.

Check how old this thread is and who Ralfy started off talking to.

I ignored SM because he resorted to personal attacks. I prefer our discussion because I find you more level-headed than him/her/it.