A way to make Blomkamp's Alien work without retconning Alien 3 or Resurrection?

[426Buddy]

That's true.  I can't argue with that, but I think that one of the reasons why they are doing this film is to get out of that corner that they painted themselves into.

What corner? The idea that there's no possible way to continue after the fourth film, or do a side story, or do literally any one of a hundred things that doesn't involve arbitrarily scrapping one or more of the existing movies, is asinine. They haven't painted themselves into a corner in any way, shape or form. There's a whole universe left to explore.

I think you're wrong.  You're looking at it from a hardcore fan's narrow point of view.  You and I may enjoy any Alien film that comes out which doesn't tie into anything, but to the vast majority of people out there it isn't entirely about the creatures.  People connect with other people... with characters.  The Aliens are very exotic animals, but they are animals nonetheless.  So people want more of Ripley's story basically.  Alien 3 felt cheap and improbable.  That's not just me talking, that would be the vast majority of fans and even more so casual fans of the series.  The Aliens series is about Ripley's story fundamentally.  Hicks and especially Newt have become an intrinsic part of that story.  This is the story that most people are interested in and going back to that as the focus will get the series out of the corner that it was painted into.

I don't get how this is so hard to understand.  Take a look at Starship Troopers.  Does the vast majority of people remember parts 2 and 3?  No they don't.  The hardcore fans might enjoy those films, but the vast majority of the people connected with the original cast of characters.  In ignoring that human connection, the whole series got derailed.  Huda, you keep saying that I did not get what I want.  That's true.  The vast majority of people did not get what they want.  That is why the franchise has limped along since 1993 rather than being something on par with Star Wars.  Now Fox realizes how to get back into that of stratosphere and they should be applauded.

Totally disagree, if there was no interest in Alien other than its former human characters then we wouldn't have Prometheus or Alien: Covenant being made.

Also Casper Van Dian (SP?) did show up for Starship Troopers 3, and it wasn't any better for it. I know I didnt really care about the characters in Starship Troopers and I like that film.

[Perfect-Organism]

Well, ultimately these are all just opinions.  Fair enough.

[HuDaFuK]

I think you're wrong.  You're looking at it from a hardcore fan's narrow point of view.

A narrow point of view? Says the guy who's apparently adamant the only Alien sequel story that can possibly be told in the future is one that undoes the death of two characters that were killed 25 years ago.

That is narrow-minded to the point of being obtuse. There are an infinite number of possibilities beyond a Hicks and Newt tale.

Take a look at Starship Troopers.  Does the vast majority of people remember parts 2 and 3?  No they don't.  The hardcore fans might enjoy those films, but the vast majority of the people connected with the original cast of characters.

Casper Van Dien was in part 3 as Johnny Rico. His return was the big selling point of the film. It was still a shit movie no one cared about.

[The Alien Predator]

I am glad to see how many people are thinking exactly like myself here.

Huda and Winde are saying things I said before but in some cases they are being much more eloquent than I.

P-O, Huda is right, it is ironic of you to say A:3 fans are narrow minded and yet hold such a narrow view that this film should overwrite the last two. Disregarding that previous films which brought back beloved actors were not always succesful nor liked. You treat this like some holy grail without considering just what if it truly sucks?

This is not a Disney Princesa cartoon with happy endings mate, it's Alien. Bad things happen in this franchise to good people. Trust me, that can be just as impactful.

The audience are pissed that beloved main characters perished... job done, emotional reaction has been incited. Audience are impacted and fantasize for a happier ending but still love the film and wouldn't change it.

I watched Eden Lake and the ending pissed me off sooooooo much but in the best ways possible. It was not a bad ending, it just ended in a way that made me fantasize going into that world and undoing all the wrongs that happen to the poor people in there while I punish the villains.

Alien is the exact same type of universe as Eden Lake... an uncaring one where even plot shields tremble and disintegrate at its brutality.

[g2vd]

Hey guys I have a idea that "should" make most of you totally happy...

What if Alien 5 retcons it's self at the end of the movie like say Total Recall? the film ends with a flash hinting that the whole thing was a dream Ripley 8 was having while she was in the tube but like Total Recall it's ambiguous and it's up to the Audience to decide what happened ehh, ehh ehh?

The Boo Hoo Brigade, eh?  Once again the anti-retconners are trying to provoke people with inflammatory language.   You know who one of the top members of that brigade is, right?  Your boy, Sir Ridley Scott.  The same guy you think is taking this series to bold new places, despite knowing nothing about Covenant.  He's producing Alien 5 .  He approved the script, made changes, said it's good.  He thinks it's a good idea, as well as a bunch of people over at Fox.  And let's not forget Sigourney Weaver.  You see, it's not just us crybabies who like this, but accomplished lifelong professionals.  Consider that.

To be perfectly honest it isn't like their opinions are worth anymore than anybody else's opinion just because they are Actors and Directors.

Something also to note is that Sigourney was the one at the time that wanted Ripley to die in Alien 3 and is the reason the character died in the first place. so if we go by the idea that their opinions are worth more than you're opinion does that mean you are wrong?

You're upset over losing A3?   I can sympathize.   It stings when a movie you love is rendered void.  That's how we felt when A3 virtually retconned the end of Aliens.   You want to yell at us HOW DOES IT FEEL!?   Now you know.

That really doesn't make any sense..if Aliens originally flashed forward to show the Sulaco nearing Earth Orbit, than yes you would have a point and Alien 3 would have "Virtually Retconned" Aliens completely. but the movies ending just had them getting into the Pods and preparing for the long journey home, all Alien 3 did was it continued the story and it took it into a new direction that is subjective and debatable as to whether or not that was the right direction to go, so really it didn't do any of this "Virtual Retconning" you are talking about. and even then if Alien 3 never happened than a sequel on principle would do the exact same thing which means a different sequel would have just "Virtually Retconned Everything" like Alien 3 did and made Aliens null and void so I kinda don't understand where you are going with this.

And if we go by that does this not mean Aliens "Virtually Retconned" Alien and made it null and void? does this not mean Aliens ruined Alien on the principle of it?

I think your Total Recall idea could be pretty cool if done right.  If the audience comes out of it asking itself what is real then the job would be well done.  But does that leave things open for additional sequels?

I mean the more I think about it the better it seems. it would be able to please both fans such as fans of Aliens will be happy to see a direct sequel to Aliens that continues in the same direction, and the fans that dislike A3 and AR will be happy to no longer have them be "canon".

Where as fans of A3 and AR will be happy to see a new Alien story, but still have A3 and AR canon and the impact and significance of those movies untarnished.

It could actually work.

[Kel G 426]

To be perfectly honest it isn't like their opinions are worth anymore than anybody else's opinion just because they are Actors and Directors.

Something also to note is that Sigourney was the one at the time that wanted Ripley to die in Alien 3 and is the reason the character died in the first place. so if we go by the idea that their opinions are worth more than you're opinion does that mean you are wrong?

Their opinions are pretty important if they're the ones making the movie, but that's not the point I was making.

I'm saying it's possible that the majority of fans who support A5 are mature intelligent folks who don't deserve to be dismissed as whiners and trolled with all this obnoxious ranting.

For now, Ridley Scott is in our camp, and I use him as an example because everyone thinks he's da bomb.  If he's cool with Blomkamp's idea, then maybe everyone should take a chill pill.

That really doesn't make any sense..if Aliens originally flashed forward to show the Sulaco nearing Earth Orbit, than yes you would have a point and Alien 3 would have "Virtually Retconned" Aliens completely. but the movies ending just had them getting into the Pods and preparing for the long journey home, all Alien 3 did was it continued the story and it took it into a new direction that is subjective and debatable as to whether or not that was the right direction to go, so really it didn't do any of this "Virtual Retconning" you are talking about. and even then if Alien 3 never happened than a sequel on principle would do the exact same thing which means a different sequel would have just "Virtually Retconned Everything" like Alien 3 did and made Aliens null and void so I kinda don't understand where you are going with this.

And if we go by that does this not mean Aliens "Virtually Retconned" Alien and made it null and void? does this not mean Aliens ruined Alien on the principle of it?

Aliens didn't change anything that happened in the first film.  Ripley wasn't killed by previously nonexistent aliens aboard the Narcissus.  A3, on the other hand, completely wiped away the resolution of it's predecessor.  It's not a retcon, no, but it may as well be because it made the events of that film meaningless. 

So when someone wants to ask, yet again, how we would feel about Aliens being retconned, it's important to know that we've basically already experienced that feeling. Now it's their turn.  We should be the ones asking them how it feels.

And on that point:  What a rigged question!  Naturally, we wouldn't like it; our love for Aliens is why we want the retcon in the first place.  So what?  You've proven nothing, Alien 3 Defense Force.  To answer it though, I'd deal with it. If someone thinks they can make a better movie than one of the best sequels of all time, then I say go for it.  I'm sure I'd find their efforts adorable.

This is not a Disney Princesa cartoon with happy endings mate, it's Alien. Bad things happen in this franchise to good people. Trust me, that can be just as impactful.

Disney Princesses?  Someone else once mentioned kittens and teacups. This is just another way of talking down to people.

You know, there could be something to be found inside the wide gulf that's between a fairy tale ending and the cheap trick pulled by A3's opening sequence.  Like something that doesn't involve magic eggs or a crash that conveniently kills everyone but the lead actress. If they want to kill characters, fine, but at least make it plausible. Or just retcon that bitch. That's all we ask.

There are an infinite number of possibilities beyond a Hicks and Newt tale.

And in 30 years all they've come up with is crap.  The retcon is due.

[The Alien Predator]

This is not a Disney Princesa cartoon with happy endings mate, it's Alien. Bad things happen in this franchise to good people. Trust me, that can be just as impactful.

Disney Princesses?  Someone else once mentioned kittens and teacups. This is just another way of talking down to people.

You know, there could be something to be found inside the wide gulf that's between a fairy tale ending and the cheap trick pulled by A3's opening sequence.  Like something that doesn't involve magic eggs or a crash that conveniently kills everyone but the lead actress. If they want to kill characters, fine, but at least make it plausible. Or just retcon that bitch. That's all we ask.

I was not talking down on him, that is your perception and it is misunderstood.

I was making a jest on how it is comparable to happy Disney cartoons which it essentially is.

All films have their flaws and A 3 is not perfect. But it does not deserve to be uncreatively retconned.

At least Shane Black sees the potential to explore the rich lore established by older stuff instead of erasing good ideas out of existence.

Blomkamp nearly went down this route too... sigh, what could have been.

[Corporal Hicks]

For now, Ridley Scott is in our camp, and I use him as an example because everyone thinks he's da bomb.  If he's cool with Blomkamp's idea, then maybe everyone should take a chill pill.

I think after Prometheus, Scott isn't the man any more. He's got some making up to do himself.

And in 30 years all they've come up with is crap.  The retcon is due.

I disagree here. Just because the last entries were bad, doesn't necessitate a retcon. They could go and tell a story about Ripley 8 - she's an interesting character - but that also has the same issues Alien 3.2 is going to have and that's Sigourney getting older. I think she looks pretty damn good but its going to get to a point where she doesn't look like she should be fighting Aliens.

Like has been said, there's space after Resurrection for sequels. There's actually space after 3 and before Resurrection for sequels but the problem there is it undermines Ripley's sacrifice at the end of the film. This is presumption on my part but it does sound like this is just an attempt to return to the "golden age" of Colonial Marines, Pulse Rifles and the original Ripley and then go from there.

It's what Fox thinks is what everyone wants. You can see it in most of the recent rebooted EU. I really expect to this to be a setup for a new main character going forward.

I just hope it's good. 

[Scorpio]

Responding to the OP:  the Bishop cloning idea just wouldn't work, but this idea could:

Have Ripley 8 find the Sulaco, obtain blood samples of Hicks and Newt and clone them (it's not unfeasible that the Sulaco would have blood samples if they have medical facilities onboard).  Cut to 20 years later and you have the events of Neil Blomkamp's Alien 5.

No need to retcon Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection at all.

[The Alien Predator]

Responding to the OP:  the Bishop cloning idea just wouldn't work, but this idea could:

Have Ripley 8 find the Sulaco, obtain blood samples of Hicks and Newt and clone them (it's not unfeasible that the Sulaco would have blood samples if they have medical facilities onboard).  Cut to 20 years later and you have the events of Neil Blomkamp's Alien 5.

No need to retcon Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection at all.

That actually is brilliant...

It would make sense too. Ripley 8 grew sentimental and lonely, so she tracked down the samples. Maybe on the Sulaco, or maybe on Fury.

I still feel it may be stretching it, but I am loving this idea as it explorea Ripley clone as a character and her connection to the old Rips.

[HuDaFuK]

Have Ripley 8 find the Sulaco, obtain blood samples of Hicks and Newt and clone them (it's not unfeasible that the Sulaco would have blood samples if they have medical facilities onboard).  Cut to 20 years later and you have the events of Neil Blomkamp's Alien 5.

So the Sulaco's just been floating through space for the last 200 years...?

[The Alien Predator]

Have Ripley 8 find the Sulaco, obtain blood samples of Hicks and Newt and clone them (it's not unfeasible that the Sulaco would have blood samples if they have medical facilities onboard).  Cut to 20 years later and you have the events of Neil Blomkamp's Alien 5.

So the Sulaco's just been floating through space for the last 200 years...?

Space is big. 

But seriously no matter how hard we all try, putting Ripley and co in this creates all manner of logic holes which is why they should put in new characters and save us all the headache of trying to make sense of it all.

There is literally so much to explore and so many new characters to cultivate and grow.

[HuDaFuK]

There is literally so much to explore and so many new characters to cultivate and grow.

This is what annoys me about Blomkamp's proposal more than anything. With Alien 5 they have a chance to do something new and outside the box with the series after four films that all focussed on Ripley, but instead they want to make the universe far smaller by removing half of its stories and regressing to using actors who are rapidly approaching old age to play characters we've already seen done before. It's a step backwards, not forwards.

The recent trend in big franchise sequels to rely almost exclusively on the nostalgia crowd in favour of actually doing new and interesting things really isn't doing these movies any favours. Films like Jurassic World and The Force Awakens are just incredibly bland and forgettable once you scratch off the flashy franchise veneer.

[Corporal Hicks]

My hope, if they do continue down this road which I fully expect, is this retcon will serve the purpose of actually being a springboard for other, original sequels after it.

[Scorpio]

STUDIO LOGIC:

An Alien sequel without Sigourney Weaver won't make any money.

Unless it's directed by Ridley Scott..

But the "springboard" idea could work, but they still need to bring Sigourney back for one more..