AVP: part of the canon, or a separate universe?

[SiL]

Again, AvP not being canon to Alien=/= AvP doesn't exist or something.

[SM]

No it's a canon issue too.  When new stories are developed, we consider other Alien sources - we do not consider AvP.

I'm not sure what that's even supposed to mean or how that relates to the official canon. Obviously stories strictly centered on the Alien  or Predator licenses won't be considering AVP (even though they may reference or be connected to each other, as in the case of Fire and Stone, Life and Death, and The Rage War trilogy for instance), as I'd figure that's the very purpose of the AVP license itself to fill out that role.

If AVP stuff is not considered for the development of new stories in the Alien universe it is not canon to it.
If it would be, they would consider it to avoid contradictions.

That is of course flawed logic. AVP wasn't considered for the development of Predators, yet still takes place within the same universe. Neither Alien nor Predator stories are required to consider past works, especially if they don't actually contradict said past works (though one could argue that the technology present in Prometheus/Covenant was contradictory to the Alien films).

There is the charles bishop weyland universe and the peter weyland universe. Predators just exist in both.

The evidence seem to support a single shared universe, as I already argued for in my initial comment on this thread.

*The canon 'bible' Fox is using for the Alien series does not include the AVP films according to those who made Alien Covenant.

I can verify this.

+

AvP is cinematically tainted.

Which (if even true) of course means nothing.

Your case seems to boil down to 'because I say so, more is pointing to my opinion' for the most part.

I don't think you will sway anyone's mind with that and think you are frankly put, wasting your time.

I've just gotten off a plane and mercifully missed a great deal of this conversation, but the above seems a most accurate summation.

[Frosty Venom]

So apparently SM works with the licensing part of FOX, right? SM argues that that the Alien, Predator and AVP titles are seperate licenses and he wouldn't be wrong. But this certainly doesn't mean seperate license = seperate canon. If it were to mean that then Prometheus would also be a seperate canon, no? It's like how Ironman and Captain America are seperate movie licenses but both feature in crossover films.

I think FOX is quite ambigouos about canon so that if people just want to enjoy Alien on it's own they can do that. Or Predator or AVP etc. on it's own they can do that. But when considering AVP it includes all Alien and Predator films.

I believe to truly render AVP 'non-canon' we'd need either an official statement from FOX or a third prequel film that cements the idea of David as the Xenomorph creator. But even then AVP could be enjoyed as it's own canon (not including the prequel films).

I'm with ya Turok and I give you props for clearly expressing your arguements in a level-headed manner, even when you're copping lot of sh!tty response such as "AVP = non-canon because SM said".

[Voodoo Magic]

But this certainly doesn't mean seperate license = seperate canon.

Nope. Never has. Never will.

[yhe1]

From Hicks, this is what FOX currently considers canon:

This can change like ACM's status did (Praise the lord). As it stands, this is where we're at.

Prometheus, Covenant, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection. All books after Out of the Shadows (though only some of Bug Hunt. Hell if I know which). All comics after Fire and Stone. All games after Isolation.

[SiL]

But this certainly doesn't mean seperate license = seperate canon.

Nope. Never has. Never will.

And has never been the argument.

[Xenomrph]

I think FOX is quite ambigouos about canon so that if people just want to enjoy Alien on it's own they can do that. Or Predator or AVP etc. on it's own they can do that. But when considering AVP it includes all Alien and Predator films.

Pretty much this.

[Frosty Venom]

But this certainly doesn't mean seperate license = seperate canon.

Nope. Never has. Never will.

And has never been the argument.

Then what is the argument?

[SiL]

Then what is the argument?

That they don't take the AvP movies into consideration when plotting new stuff. They're not relevant to anything but themselves and a few pieces of older media -- also currently ignored in the grander scheme -- that directly tied to them.

To whit, no, FOX doesn't consider that all of the movies are canon to each other. The Alien franchise, at the least, is doing its own thing regardless of what the others are doing.

How that's a controversial statement continues to baffle me.

[yhe1]

But this certainly doesn't mean seperate license = seperate canon.

Nope. Never has. Never will.

And has never been the argument.

Then what is the argument?

That Charles Bishop weyland and Peter Weyland doesn't exist in the same universe.

[SiL]

Or that the Aliens currently don't exist until the 22nd century.

FOX has always taken the stance that Alien movies are free to ignore anything that's not an Alien movie. Comics and novels and off-shoots follow the films, not the other way around. Alien3 should be proof enough, but Prometheus and Covenant neatly reinforce it.

[yhe1]

Free to ignore when there is a contradiction, as of right now, there is none.

The only thing being contradicted is Ripley's intent, but we all know Aliens already contradicts his intentions.   

[SiL]

There are plenty of contradictions. Fans can creatively get around them by making suppositions or injecting their own workarounds, but these are outside of the actual stories.

Prometheus ignored AvP's Weyland, Covenant ignores everything explicitly saying Aliens are an older species.

And for God's sake dude; Ridley. Ripley is the film character. Ridley is the filmmaker.

[SM]

I'm with ya Turok and I give you props for clearly expressing your arguements in a level-headed manner, even when you're copping lot of sh!tty response such as "AVP = non-canon because SM said".

It's not me saying it though.

People want to know what's considered canon and what's not.  I'm in position to tell them.  Then it's the predictable f**kwittery of 'I don't like that' (you're not obliged to), 'there are no contradictions' (lying or blissful ignorance - take your pick), 'the Weyland's are related' (they're demonstrably not), and 'David didn't create the Aliens because AvP' (in spite of Covenant).

Rinse.  Repeat.

[yhe1]

Prometheus ignored AvP's Weyland, Covenant ignores everything explicitly saying Aliens are an older species.

for the former, We have evidence for FOX rebooting the universe with the WY report. No such evidence exists for the latter.