Popular things you don't get

[SM]

 

Non-western women have a much harder time so western women need to STFU.  Such devastating logic...

[DoomRulz]

Not shut up but the way some of them talk about oppression, you'd think they can't even leave the house without asking for permission first.

[SM]

Diddums.

[DoomRulz]

I honestly had to Google that word, so in response, that is simply my perception from what I've witnessed.

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

Here in Western society, I'd argue they do. You want to talk about female oppression? Go visit Saudi Arabia or India or Pakistan or Afghanistan, then come back and tell me how bad women here have it.

Your two YouTube examples are so cherry-picked. The feminist movement is over a hundred years old and has helped women immensely as it has been a part of other progressive movements as well. Feminist extremists are a tiny minority that unfortunately is extremely loud and vocal, and conservatives and media love to focus on them rather than the majority. MRM is a big joke to me. It's a misdirected movement only helping out the reactionary forces in society in the end. (White) Western men have never been systemically discriminated since they're the ones who created the system - we're the norm. Just ridiculous to me.

Stopping to fight for equality here in the West just because it's way worse in other parts of the world is a really weird and weak argument to me. It's like saying we should stop looking for better ways to cure cancer since we've become better at treating cancer.

[DoomRulz]

If you honestly believe the MRM is a joke, then you know nothing about it. Men do in fact face systemic problems in society that need to be addressed such as high education drop out rates, higher rates of suicide, having divorce laws stacked against them, and the MRM also works to debunk stereotypes surrounding men such as the idea of the disposable male.

We should never stop fighting for equality. Society cannot function properly without it; that's obvious. But when feminism has created a society in which a woman can falsely accuse a man of rape and get away with it but a man can't crack a sexual joke around a woman out of fear of "sexual harassment", there's a serious problem. That isn't the MRM's fault.

[SM]

Why do you feel the need to crack "sexual jokes" around people you don't know well enough to know how they'll take it?

Bit of professionalism and decorum in the work place doesn't go astray.

[DoomRulz]

I wouldn't.

It doesn't necessarily need to be the person you said it to that accuses you of harassment. It can be someone else entirely who happened to overhear it.

[SM]

The responsibility is on the person speaking to be more discrete talking about that stuff.  This isn't a new thing by any means, so there's not much point whining about it.

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

If you honestly believe the MRM is a joke, then you know nothing about it. Men do in fact face systemic problems in society that need to be addressed such as high education drop out rates, higher rates of suicide, having divorce laws stacked against them, and the MRM also works to debunk stereotypes surrounding men such as the idea of the disposable male.

Which isn't the feminists fault rather than the exact same society/system men created, it just happens to be that as women has gotten it better they have managed to make their way into the male-oriented world by simply having to work harder and better than men. The stereotypes and systemic discrimination of men is created by men, not by women. It's been going on for centuries, millenniums.

We should never stop fighting for equality. Society cannot function properly without it; that's obvious. But when feminism has created a society in which a woman can falsely accuse a man of rape and get away with it but a man can't crack a sexual joke around a woman out of fear of "sexual harassment", there's a serious problem. That isn't the MRM's fault.

No, MRM is just misdirected. Instead of fighting feminists and trying to make it look like men in the West are the victims of modern society, they should join the mainstream feminism movement as their cause ("mens rights") is the result of the same system and culture the feminist movement is trying to change.

[DoomRulz]

If you honestly believe the MRM is a joke, then you know nothing about it. Men do in fact face systemic problems in society that need to be addressed such as high education drop out rates, higher rates of suicide, having divorce laws stacked against them, and the MRM also works to debunk stereotypes surrounding men such as the idea of the disposable male.

Which isn't the feminists fault rather than the exact same society/system men created, it just happens to be that as women has gotten it better they have managed to make their way into the male-oriented world by simply having to work hard and better than men. The stereotypes and systemic discrimination of men is created by men, not by women. It's been going on for centuries, millenniums.

If they're created by women or men or both, it sucks either way. My point is that the MRM simply wants to address those issues.

No, MRM is just misdirected. Instead of fighting feminists and trying to make it look like men in the West are the victims of modern society, they should join the mainstream feminism movement as their cause ("mens rights") is the result of the same system and culture the feminist movement is trying to change.

Joining the feminist movement is not an option because modern feminism has a very one-sided, black & white view of the world that women are victims, no matter what. If feminism was in fact embracing of the MRM, you wouldn't have idiots like the ones posted in the first video I linked to, protesting and shutting down discussions and lectures where the topic is men's rights. The mere fact that you yourself are telling me they should join feminism and forget their own agenda is proof the MRM needs to exist because it sheds new light on old issues and offers a different perspective.

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

If they're created by women or men or both, it sucks either way. My point is that the MRM simply wants to address those issues.

They've been created by men alone but upheld by men and women alike. It is just 'recently' that men have realized that the system we/men created is punishing men as well as the world is changing. There are lots of feminists who address these issues.

Joining the feminist movement is not an option because modern feminism has a very one-sided, black & white view of the world that women are victims, no matter what. If feminism was in fact embracing of the MRM, you wouldn't have idiots like the ones posted in the first video I linked to, protesting and shutting down discussions and lectures where the topic is men's rights. The mere fact that you yourself are telling me they should join feminism and forget their own agenda is proof the MRM needs to exist because it sheds new light on old issues and offers a different perspective.

Calling all "modern" feminism as one-sided, black-and-white and anti-men is quite one-sided and black-and-white in itself. Like I said, there are a bunch of extremist/militant 'feminist' groups out there who are very aggressive and vocal, but in reality they are really few compared to the feminist movement at large and worldwide. Serious feminists are well aware that our patriarchal system and society also have backfired at modern day men as well and not only women, and like I said this is being discussed daily. You can't get rid of old female stereotypes and discrimination issues without getting rid of the male stereotypes and discrimination issues directly linked to them. Men working with young children being seen as possible pedophiles is directly linked to how working with young children is seen as a typical woman's job - low pay and seen as unimportant - "why would a man ever want to work with small kids unless he's in fact a child molester?"...

To say that feminists don't discuss these things shows that you're only focusing on what the 'feminist' extremists are saying and doing.

[DoomRulz]

our patriarchal system and society

Our patriarchal system and society. I find that funny.

Just so we're clear here. We're talking about the same society where women are educated, have access to health care, get any job they want (if she wants to work at all), drive a car, be in the same room as a man, make whatever decision she wants in regards to her physical health, and run for political office? In effect, do whatever a man can do, according to what feminists say is reserved exclusively for men? That patriarchal system and society?

If we really lived in this oppressive world where men run everything and keep women under their thumb like feminists claim, a woman wouldn't be allowed to leave the house without asking for permission first. Why would men allow women to do the same things men do if that's somehow a bad thing?

To say that feminists don't discuss these things shows that you're only focusing on what the 'feminist' extremists are saying and doing.

Then, really, if we're discussing the same thing, then we should drop feminism and MRM altogether and call it humanism. Sounds pretty equal to me.

[SM]

...dear lord

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

Our patriarchal system and society. I find that funny.

Just so we're clear here. We're talking about the same society where women are educated, have access to health care, get any job they want (if she wants to work at all), drive a car, be in the same room as a man, make whatever decision she wants in regards to her physical health, and run for political office? In effect, do whatever a man can do, according to what feminists say is reserved exclusively for men? That patriarchal system and society?

I never said that things haven't gotten better for women (much thanks to the feminist movement and the other movements feminism has been a part of), but our system and society is still patriarchal at its core. Traditional womens jobs and activities are looked down upon and valued less. Women are generally still treated as less important than men. We're still arguing abortion in the U.S. and women DO generally get payed less for the same job as men.

If we really lived in this oppressive world where men run everything and keep women under their thumb like feminists claim, a woman wouldn't be allowed to leave the house without asking for permission first. Why would men allow women to do the same things men do if that's somehow a bad thing?

You're still battling the talking-points of the vocal extremist 'feminist' minority groups out there. Any mainstream feminist is well aware that things are getting better and better for women but also that there is still a lot of work to be done.

Then, really, if we're discussing the same thing, then we should drop feminism and MRM altogether and call it humanism. Sounds pretty equal to me.

Feminism (and "MRM") is obviously a part of humanistic ideas and ideals. Sub-categories so to speak. It's not uncommon to talk about racism, sexism, homophobia, religious discrimination etc. at the same time. It's all about equality and human rights.