Things you just hate in the world

Started by Dark Passenger, May 26, 2010, 04:35:29 AM

Author
Things you just hate in the world (Read 409,966 times)

RagingDragon

BJJ most certainly requires strength.  The point where you can beat a stronger person of similar skill based on technique is very far down the road, after years of training.  Most people can't overpower a stronger adversary even when they have solid technique, as you're still reliant on the timing it takes to exploit your opponent and use said technique.  In an actual fight, that window is probably in the hundreths-of-a-second category, and a big old dude can simply bend your arm into your face and lay on you if you miss your openings.

Krav Maga focuses on a lot of aggressive attack response, combining a defense with an immediate series of attacks that will hopefully incapacitate someone long enough for you to run away.  It was created and tested in WW2-era Bratislava where it enjoyed many real-world applications, and is used by the IDF as well as the Mossad, who are some bad mothers.

Ground fighting and wrestling are great to know, but I wouldn't say they were the end-all of hand-to-hand fights.

That kind of depends on your point of view, or what you look for in a system- if that's practicality and ease-of-learning, or the effectiveness of the system as a whole, after you've learned and can actually apply it.


ScardyFox

ScardyFox

#3796
Quote from: RagingDragon on Sep 14, 2012, 08:38:09 AM
BJJ most certainly requires strength.  The point where you can beat a stronger person of similar skill based on technique is very far down the road, after years of training.

Completely and utterly untrue. So, are you telling me I am stronger than a 300 pound person? When I first started (years ago), 6 months into it I was able to grapple, subdue and submit people outweighing me by double my weight. I certainly didn't do it with my strength. Taking myself out of the equation I have seen such things many times over the years.

It does not require strength in quantity like other martial arts do. As for a similar skill set of course a person with inherent strength advantage will win. Thats a moot point.

Quote from: RagingDragon on Sep 14, 2012, 08:38:09 AMMost people can't overpower a stronger adversary even when they have solid technique, as you're still reliant on the timing it takes to exploit your opponent and use said technique.  In an actual fight, that window is probably in the hundreths-of-a-second category, and a big old dude can simply bend your arm into your face and lay on you if you miss your openings.

IN BJJ you can over power a stronger person - thats the whole point. Its leverage and understanding that matters. Not strength (to a degree). You're speaking hypothetically - I am speaking from experience of years from practicing and teaching (years ago).

Quote from: RagingDragon on Sep 14, 2012, 08:38:09 AMKrav Maga focuses on a lot of aggressive attack response, combining a defense with an immediate series of attacks that will hopefully incapacitate someone long enough for you to run away.  It was created and tested in WW2-era Bratislava where it enjoyed many real-world applications, and is used by the IDF as well as the Mossad, who are some bad mothers.

OK, sense you are speaking hypothetically above, I will do so here. What will you do if you do attack me and I cinch you right up in a tight clinch?

Quote from: RagingDragon on Sep 14, 2012, 08:38:09 AMGround fighting and wrestling are great to know, but I wouldn't say they were the end-all of hand-to-hand fights.

Wouldn't say that either but you can make a comparison to what is most effective for the average person. BJJ comes out on top, head and shoulders.

Quote from: RagingDragon on Sep 14, 2012, 08:38:09 AMThat kind of depends on your point of view, or what you look for in a system- if that's practicality and ease-of-learning, or the effectiveness of the system as a whole, after you've learned and can actually apply it.

Yes, but you can still draw conclusions. Most fights end up on the ground, BJJ is gender friendly and takes the least overall aestheticism to apply. because its so utterly effective and easy to teach and streamline is why its being adopted by the military.

Geez, I wish I could train with you guys and show you. Honestly, I can't suggest enough for you guys to go and try it. Although, it should be a Gracie affiliate. There is a difference between sports JJ and Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#3797
Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 08:21:44 AM
Where did you come up with the idea that a person wants to be on their back specifically? As for thats the worst place to be in a street fight that is 100% true. However, are you going to be able to guarantee a person isn't going to end up there? Fact is, most fights do end up on the ground in a 1 on 1 situation unless the person gets a one shot KO in. Thats human nature.

As for Muay Thai, that requires a higher degree of atheism. A far longer learning curve for effectiveness, strength and general athleticism to developed. Bjj does not. It is gender friendly, does not require loads of strength, does not require athleticism, etc.

There is a reason why BJJ is being adopted by the military and not Thai.

You can't guarantee it so you get back up to your feet pronto instead of wasting time pulling guard, sweeping, yada yada yada.

Muay thai requires a certain level of atheism, really. I wasn't aware it was tied to levels of religious rejection. BJJ does require athleticism, lots of it actually. If you're out of shape, you won't last too long on the ground, rolling around.

ScardyFox

ScardyFox

#3798
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 09:33:21 AM
Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 08:21:44 AM
Where did you come up with the idea that a person wants to be on their back specifically? As for thats the worst place to be in a street fight that is 100% true. However, are you going to be able to guarantee a person isn't going to end up there? Fact is, most fights do end up on the ground in a 1 on 1 situation unless the person gets a one shot KO in. Thats human nature.

As for Muay Thai, that requires a higher degree of atheism. A far longer learning curve for effectiveness, strength and general athleticism to developed. Bjj does not. It is gender friendly, does not require loads of strength, does not require athleticism, etc.

There is a reason why BJJ is being adopted by the military and not Thai.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 09:33:21 AMYou can't guarantee it so you get back up to your feet pronto instead of wasting time pulling guard, sweeping, yada yada yada.

Muay thai requires a certain level of atheism, really. I wasn't aware it was tied to levels of religious rejection. BJJ does require athleticism, lots of it actually. If you're out of shape, you won't last too long on the ground, rolling around.

No, BJJ does not require a lot of athleticism. Its that simple - no it does not. When I say athleticism I am not speaking about cardio. I does not require a lot of strength, nor a lot of speed nor even a lot of coordination. This is why in part it is so gender friendly and women can do very well at it even rolling (rolling is a term used for sparring) with a man.

Are you inferring that Muay Thai doesn't require a lot speed, coordination, strength, and raw physical toughness? It takes years to hone those skills. You can be effective with BJJ in a handful of months. Again, this is why the Military started to adopt it in mass.


Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 09:33:21 AMYou can't guarantee it so you get back up to your feet pronto instead of wasting time pulling guard, sweeping, yada yada yada.

I have no idea what you mean there.

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#3799
Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 09:44:14 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 09:33:21 AM
Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 08:21:44 AM
Where did you come up with the idea that a person wants to be on their back specifically? As for thats the worst place to be in a street fight that is 100% true. However, are you going to be able to guarantee a person isn't going to end up there? Fact is, most fights do end up on the ground in a 1 on 1 situation unless the person gets a one shot KO in. Thats human nature.

As for Muay Thai, that requires a higher degree of atheism. A far longer learning curve for effectiveness, strength and general athleticism to developed. Bjj does not. It is gender friendly, does not require loads of strength, does not require athleticism, etc.

There is a reason why BJJ is being adopted by the military and not Thai.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 09:33:21 AMYou can't guarantee it so you get back up to your feet pronto instead of wasting time pulling guard, sweeping, yada yada yada.

Muay thai requires a certain level of atheism, really. I wasn't aware it was tied to levels of religious rejection. BJJ does require athleticism, lots of it actually. If you're out of shape, you won't last too long on the ground, rolling around.

No, BJJ does not require a lot of athleticism. Its that simple - no it does not. When I say athleticism I am not speaking about cardio. I does not require a lot of strength, nor a lot of speed nor even a lot of coordination. This is why in part it is so gender friendly and women can do very well at it even rolling (rolling is a term used for sparring) with a man.

Are you inferring that Muay Thai doesn't require a lot speed, coordination, strength, and raw physical toughness? It takes years to hone those skills. You can be effective with BJJ in a handful of months. Again, this is why the Military started to adopt it in mass.

It also takes years to properly hone the skills needed for proper submission work, which includes not just knowing how to apply submissions but also knowing how to defend, and escape from them. And yes, it does require good cardio. If we were to talk about gi vs. no-gi grappling, it makes a huge difference. Grappling whilst wearing a cotton-made suit can wear you out in no time. Ergo, try rolling in reality whilst wearing everyday clothes. Not easy.

Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 09:44:14 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 09:33:21 AMYou can't guarantee it so you get back up to your feet pronto instead of wasting time pulling guard, sweeping, yada yada yada.

I have no idea what you mean there.

You said you can't guarantee the fight won't go to the ground. I'm saying, because of that, the first thing you should be doing if it does go to the ground, is to spring back up to your feet pronto. Don't waste time working technique off your back.

NonCorporeal

Reality TV.
Naive lefties.
Gun control idiots.
Celebrity "news/media."
And stupid people in general

Sinister Serenity

Sinister Serenity

#3801
Quote from: NonCorporeal on Sep 14, 2012, 07:35:54 PM
Reality TV.
Naive lefties.
Gun control idiots.
Celebrity "news/media."
And stupid people in general

Right with you on reality TV and celebrity shit on the news.
As for the "naive lefties" thing, I'm an independent and see things wrong and right on both sides.. (though the republican party is far more corrupt than the democrat party)

I got to say dude.. The majority of this site is left, you might want to avoid the political threads if that bothers you. Just warning ya, hate seeing people argue and flame. If your level-headed and enjoy a good debate though... You'll have some fun.

ScardyFox

ScardyFox

#3802
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 06:34:52 PM
It also takes years to properly hone the skills needed for proper submission work, which includes not just knowing how to apply submissions but also knowing how to defend, and escape from them.

No, it doesn't take years - it takes months to learn how to dominate against a untrained person. This is also in part why its a superior art for the everyday person.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 06:34:52 PMAnd yes, it does require good cardio. If we were to talk about gi vs. no-gi grappling, it makes a huge difference. Grappling whilst wearing a cotton-made suit can wear you out in no time. Ergo, try rolling in reality whilst wearing everyday clothes. Not easy.

I didn't say it didn't require good cardio so I don't know where that is coming from. I was talking about strength, etc etc. I made my point pretty clear on that.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 06:34:52 PM
You said you can't guarantee the fight won't go to the ground. I'm saying, because of that, the first thing you should be doing if it does go to the ground, is to spring back up to your feet pronto. Don't waste time working technique off your back.

What are you talking about? Nobody fights off their back (in a street fight) unless they absolutely have to - and when you can get up you get up immediately. I think you need to go take some classes at a Gracie affiliate because you're getting things backwards.

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#3803
Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 09:55:56 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 06:34:52 PM
It also takes years to properly hone the skills needed for proper submission work, which includes not just knowing how to apply submissions but also knowing how to defend, and escape from them.

No, it doesn't take years - it takes months to learn how to dominate against a untrained person. This is also in part why its a superior art for the everyday person.

Months, years. Either way, it still takes quite a while.

Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 09:55:56 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 06:34:52 PMAnd yes, it does require good cardio. If we were to talk about gi vs. no-gi grappling, it makes a huge difference. Grappling whilst wearing a cotton-made suit can wear you out in no time. Ergo, try rolling in reality whilst wearing everyday clothes. Not easy.

I didn't say it didn't require good cardio so I don't know where that is coming from. I was talking about strength, etc etc. I made my point pretty clear on that.

I meant to say athleticism, sorry. I include cardio as part of that overall, package, if you will.

Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 09:55:56 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 06:34:52 PM
You said you can't guarantee the fight won't go to the ground. I'm saying, because of that, the first thing you should be doing if it does go to the ground, is to spring back up to your feet pronto. Don't waste time working technique off your back.

What are you talking about? Nobody fights off their back (in a street fight) unless they absolutely have to - and when you can get up you get up immediately. I think you need to go take some classes at a Gracie affiliate because you're getting things backwards.

You just said the fight might go to the ground, which is why you're arguing in favour of BJJ being a viable form of fighting.

SM

SM

#3804
QuoteAs for Muay Thai, that requires a higher degree of atheism.


Grand Master.

Sinister Serenity

Sinister Serenity

#3805
Lol.

SiL

SiL

#3806
"My preferred X is better than your preferred X arguments."

See also, the last page or so.

ScardyFox

ScardyFox

#3807
Quote from: DoomRulz on Sep 14, 2012, 10:07:47 PM
Months, years. Either way, it still takes quite a while.

A while yes? But in the comparison, months is clearly better. Again, why its adopted by the military and not thai boxing.

Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 09:55:56 PM
I meant to say athleticism, sorry. I include cardio as part of that overall, package, if you will.

Ok, in that case thai takes far more athleticism, as I said before, then BJJ does.

Quote from: ScardyFox on Sep 14, 2012, 09:55:56 PM
You just said the fight might go to the ground, which is why you're arguing in favour of BJJ being a viable form of fighting.

OK, yes, but I didn't say you want to fight off your back. Fights do tend to mostly end up on the ground - if you don't know what you're doing you're effed. However, nobody wants to fight off their back if that can be helped. I can't imagine why someone would want to pull guard. You don't try and sweep in a real fight when you're on your back. Thats something Sports bjj people do. You want to get back to your feet ASAP or reverse if its easy enough to do - not hang out there.

RazorSlash

Bronies.

Spoiler
PREPARING FOR HATRED
[close]

chupacabras acheronsis

little late for that.

even bronies hate bronies now.

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News