James Bond

[SiL]

No. Make it a new character and imbue it with matriarchal and feminist concepts. Bond is a vessel for masculinity and patriarchy and should be used as such - originally to glorify it, now to deconstruct it.

[OmegaZilla]

No. Make it a new character and imbue it with matriarchal and feminist concepts. Bond is a vessel for masculinity and patriarchy and should be used as such - originally to glorify it, now to deconstruct it.

Starbuck (2004)?

She-Hulk (1980)?

Ripley (1979)?

Dune (2021)?

All Craig Bond from Skyfall (2012) onward?

Introduced in No Time to Die (2021) and hinted at with the previous films?

Everything Everywhere all at Once? Superman Red Son? etc

(granted, the only Bond I can stomach is Craig...)

[SiL]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

[BigDaddyJohn]

Give me Idris Elba, that'll be a good start.

[KiramidHead]

So I took a look at the dumb Octopus graph of who wore the ring in Spectre. I never noticed Patrice, the random assassin guy from Skyfall, on there before. That tells me they made the silly infographic first, then realized they were short one tentacle. Also, he's the only one not deceased? After he fell off a building?

[OmegaZilla]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

rule 63ing a character can be good as long as you do something scriptwise with it (Starbuck is a FANTASTIC example)

[SiL]

Starbuck is the only example of rewriting the same character to be female from that list (although I haven't seen Dune so not sure what you're referring to). And from memory, Starbuck wasn't particularly defined by masculinity and patriarchal archetypes originally.

But I wasn't referring to Rule 63ing in general, I'm talking about Bond, specifically. You can have a female 007, sure, but Bond is more than 007. The work you put in to making a female Bond work as anything other than a shallow swap, you might as well - and should - make a new character.

Rule 63 can totally work but this would be Bond in name only by the time you're done.

[OmegaZilla]

Starbuck is the only example of rewriting the same character to be female from that list (although I haven't seen Dune so not sure what you're referring to). And from memory, Starbuck wasn't particularly defined by masculinity and patriarchal archetypes originally.

The other examples are writing based on "let's take this established character and change something about the context". Superman Red Son is based on a pitch, "what if superman's pod landed in Russia?"

In this it would be "what if James Bond but woman?"

What can one do with that, scriptwise?

I'm talking about Bond, specifically. You can have a female 007, sure, but Bond is more than 007.

they establish just that in 'No Time to Die' (which I didn't care for)

Rule 63 can totally work but this would be Bond in name only by the time you're done.

Doctor Who had the main character changing sex too

[SiL]

Ripley wasn't an established character. She Hulk is her own character, she's not just Bernadette Banner.

What if Bond but a woman would be any female 007 agent with the name Bond added to it.

[OmegaZilla]

Ripley wasn't an established character. She Hulk is her own character, she's not just Bernadette Banner.

right, but consider the script history for both of them

What if Bond but a woman would be any female 007 agent with the name Bond added to it.

that's what the Craig films say yeah

'girl bond' was liberally used and semantically imprecise, perhaps 'girl 007' is one we can agree on

[SiL]

right, but consider the script history for both of them

While O'Bannon didn't think Roby specifically would be cast as female, the script explicitly says the entire cast is unisex.

'girl bond' was liberally used and semantically imprecise, perhaps 'girl 007' is one we can agree on

Have a whole roster of 00 agents, why not.

[OmegaZilla]

While O'Bannon didn't think Roby specifically would be cast as female, the script explicitly says the entire cast is unisex.

exactly

Have a whole roster of 00 agents, why not.

Have agent 085 be a baldie with a cap and he's like mocked by all the other 0s

[SiL]

While O'Bannon didn't think Roby specifically would be cast as female, the script explicitly says the entire cast is unisex.

exactly

... exactly what? "Unisex character conformed to female in the scripting stage" is not at all the same as what we're discussing with Bond.

[OmegaZilla]

While O'Bannon didn't think Roby specifically would be cast as female, the script explicitly says the entire cast is unisex.

exactly

... exactly what? "Unisex character conformed to female in the scripting stage" is not at all the same as what we're discussing with Bond.

okay let's go the long road

unisex character has [traits]

if you iterate the unisex character into a traditional man, you obtain one thing, and so forth


so is it possible to have a good woman 007? Of course, because if you take the 007 archetype, switch the sex or gender and then doctor the script a bit, you have something.

It is an idea they want to bring forth so yeah it'll be interesting to see what they do. The more non-American fast food creatives the better

[SiL]

You keep conflating Bond and 007.

007 is a license and a moniker, it is not the essence of the character. Anyone could be 007.

Bond is a specific character whose character traits are almost exclusively defined by being a male - which highlights how little character he really has, to be fair.

Roby was a character whose traits had nothing to do with their sex, and even when solidified as female Ripley's sex didn't become relevant until the sequels. Ripley is still a unisex character in the finished movie - the whole crew is.

A female 007 is not the same as Jane Bond. I'm arguing against the latter.