What did you think of AvP?

[SM]

If a human actually did something like saving an injured Predator, then I can see a Predator being grateful.  But the Predator teaming up with her the way it happened in the film was utterly pissweak.  It was extremely poor writing.

I've always maintained that the Predator should stayed in character and simply intended to shoot her anyway for nicking the gun, and then have them seperated by the shifting pyramid.  Then FORCING them into a situation where they have to work together.  This would actually give the Predator something resembling character development as well as achieving the desired result of teaming up to dispose of the Queen.

[Hyperdyne]

I think the important difference is that it was a kid predator. A trained adult on the hunt would probably need more for a teamup than this, but then again, not every predator is the same. they also have characters. Broken Tusk actually turned against his own and killed one of his to save Machiko's friend and he didn't kill people.
The young predator like Scar wouldnt be like his older 'friends' yet. Why kill her. She gave him the weapon and proved to be able to act and think quick. All he did at the beginning was letting her follow him, and not immediately. Very soon after she saved his life, thus the movie gave him the same reason for sympathy  as the '89 AVP comic did

[SM]

There's a world of difference between letting her live and actually teaming up with her.  She didn't do anything to earn the respect of the Predator.  Either that or Predators have extremely low standards.

If they teamed up after she shot the Alien's head off when it jumped on Scar - that'd be a bit easier to accept.

Personally though, I really don't give that much of a shit, other than to say it's poor writing (in an ocean of poor writing in that script) and I can see why Predaboys would get grumpy about it.

[Hyperdyne]

But again, i dont think it was a teampu right away. He gave her something to defend herself and let her follow.
And again, In '89 AVP it didn't take much for Tusk to befriend Machiko and the doctor, and to symphatize with people. It was just his character, he was a good guy. Thats why i never had a trouble with the way the teamup started in the movie

[SM]

I don't remember the comic well enough, and the vast bulk of the audience would have no knowledge of the comic.

Ultimately it has to be internally consistent and consistent with previous Predator films.  I don't really feel that it was.  It went from the Predators silently lynching Stafford's men and ruthlessly firing net guns at Stafford himself before impaling him; to being a bit too warm and fuzzy.

[Hyperdyne]

yeah, but it was an AVP movie. AVP was started by a huge praise and success of the first AVP comic book, and thats what the movie was heavily based on. I think that why some might not like it, because some look at it as Alien 5 or Predator 3, while its really a different franchise started by Randy Stradley which had its own plot and rules on their own that proved to be quite sucessfull. I judge AVP by AVP's standards, not by Alien or Predator standalone franchises

As for avpR - I admit, it has nothing to do with the legendary 89 comic, and it does try to be a sequel/prequel to the movies

[SM]

yeah, but it was an AVP movie. AVP was started by a huge praise and success of the first AVP comic book, and thats what the movie was heavily based on. I think that why some might not like it, because some look at it as Aline 5 or Predator 3, while its really a different franchise started by Randy Stradley which had its own plot and rules on their own that proved to be quite sucessfull

The comic means jack schtimpy to the bulk of the audience.  Anderson had to make the film appeal to more than comic fanboys.

As for it being a different franchise with it's own plot and rules - neither of those things was intentional.  Pauly intended AvP to be a prequel to the Alien films, just how Stradley intended his comic to follow on from the second Alien film, albeit with a different arc going on.  Pauly also didn't intentionally break the rules.  Nevertheless he did (with things like the gestation), and this is the very thing that pissed a lot of people off.

You can't make a film starring two fairly popular monsters and then f**k with what's been established and expect fans to blindly accept it.

[Hyperdyne]

yeah, but it was an AVP movie. AVP was started by a huge praise and success of the first AVP comic book, and thats what the movie was heavily based on. I think that why some might not like it, because some look at it as Aline 5 or Predator 3, while its really a different franchise started by Randy Stradley which had its own plot and rules on their own that proved to be quite sucessfull

The comic means jack schtimpy to the bulk of the audience.  Anderson had to make the film appeal to more than comic fanboys.

I would have to disagree with that. i think it would be highly disrespectful if he would ignore the fans of the franchise and ignore the story and elements, and the people who made this franchise such success in the first place. Its like doing a terminator movie and disregarding terminator fans and whats been said and done in the previous movies.
The idea with doing a movie that has a cult following is to appeal to fans while also catching the interest of the casual audience. As a fan of AVP since 89, AVP scored big time with paying tribute to Stradley's story and the rules and the plot. He certainly did his homework with the franchise and went right to the beginning. He also had to capture the general audience at some point too since the movie was so financially successfull

As for similarities to comic book being unintentional - not true. Many of the scenes are panel by panel recreations of the comic book. Not only that, the idea of a hunt and people being a cattle to breed aliens, good predator and a girl that gets marked, almost the same ending - its all very close yet with a slighly original and different twist to it, but the core is the same

What happens when fans and rules of the franchise are shoved aside> avpR. And althought I thought avpR was entertaining, both fans, critics and general audience especially, thinks its the "Batman & Robin" of the alien and predator series

[Hyperdyne]

Oh, one more thing I wanna address is the above mentioned incubation time. I surely won't defend franchise errors, but I don't mind them as long as they work for the movie. Alien 3 had most of them along with avpR, but without bending those rules the plot would be impossible to realize.
Jim Cameron was asked about AVP's incubation time and it didn't bother him (well , after so many bigger changes in previous movies, why would this) and I like how he described that the series moved away from the realism and gained more comic book approach, and not in a negative way.

One other interesting thing I want to point out is what Alec Gillis said on the avpR commentary track. I don't know why its never mentioned, but he did adress the issue of aliens growing so fast in both AVP and AVPR. He explained that the predators inject either the queen or the facehuggers with somethig that accelerates the growth so they would be able to hunt much sooner

[SM]

I would have to disagree with that. i think it would be highly disrespectful if he would ignore the fans of the franchise and ignore the story and elements, and the people who made this franchise such success in the first place.

I never said he should ignore the fans.

As for similarities to comic book being unintentional - not true.

I never said that either.

Jim Cameron was asked about AVP's incubation time and it didn't bother him (well , after so many bigger changes in previous movies, why would this) and I like how he described that the series moved away from the realism and gained more comic book approach, and not in a negative way.

Jimbob's opinion doesn't mean a great deal beyond dealing with his own installment.  And moving away from realism IS a negative thing in a series that has prided itself on some modicum of realism.

He explained that the predators inject either the queen or the facehuggers with somethig that accelerates the growth so they would be able to hunt much sooner

And yet no attempt is made to address this in the narrative.  Gestation (in Alien and Alien3) takes around 16 hours normally, with a full grown Alien about 2 hours after birth, max (based on Alien).  Now we go from hugger to full grown adult in under 20 minutes.  It's ridiculous in the extreme even if the Predators are roiding the Queen up.

[Hyperdyne]

I would have to disagree with that. i think it would be highly disrespectful if he would ignore the fans of the franchise and ignore the story and elements, and the people who made this franchise such success in the first place.

I never said he should ignore the fans.

As for similarities to comic book being unintentional - not true.

I never said that either.

Oh, I misunderstood then, my bad

Jim Cameron was asked about AVP's incubation time and it didn't bother him (well , after so many bigger changes in previous movies, why would this) and I like how he described that the series moved away from the realism and gained more comic book approach, and not in a negative way.

Jimbob's opinion doesn't mean a great deal beyond dealing with his own installment.  And moving away from realism IS a negative thing in a series that has prided itself on some modicum of realism.[/quote]

well the series moved away from realism and logic a long time ago with Alien 3, so thats nothing new

He explained that the predators inject either the queen or the facehuggers with somethig that accelerates the growth so they would be able to hunt much sooner

And yet no attempt is made to address this in the narrative. 

Agree. Especially seeing how it created so much confusion and heat. It should definetely be explained in one way or another in one of the movies.
Like I said, I dont mind the fastened growth we see in the first AVP, but in AVPR Predalien getting bigger than a predator in few minutes or seconds even is a major stretch, even with the accelerated growth

[Hyperdyne]

You know, with this conversation I see why AVP gets some heat here and there. Like I mentioned above, it gets judged like its Alien 5 or Predator 3, which it is not. It is a different franchise which was started with Randy Stradley story in 89, so good that it spawned such popular franchise with videogames, comic series , toys etc. And AVP movie is an AVP franchise, and it done a very faithful and great job in recreating the rules, look and most of the plot of Stradley's story.
I never got the reason why some complain about Predators being bulky. And that comes down to the same argument. Cause people look at Predator movies, instead of AVP comic book where Predators were enormous and had so much armor, and not because of the art, which was very realistic. Bigger and bulkier predators were hunting aliens. And note the armor on Broken Tusk too




And so on and on. As an AVP franchise, AVP did tremendous job with being faithfull to the comic story and vision, and visuals! Thats why I dont judge it by spearate franchise standards, but by what it is, not Alien movie. NOT Predator. Its a loose Alien vs Predator comic book adaptation

[DoomRulz]

I never got the reason why some complain about Predators being bulky. And that comes down to the same argument. Cause people look at Predator movies, instead of AVP comic book where Predators were enormous and had so much armor, and not because of the art, which was very realistic. Bigger and bulkier predators were hunting aliens. And note the armor on Broken Tusk too

Because in the comic, the artwork can still make the Predator look somewhat slim. Transferred over to the screen, you end up with a creation that looks massive and hinders the actor's performance.

[Hyperdyne]

I never got the reason why some complain about Predators being bulky. And that comes down to the same argument. Cause people look at Predator movies, instead of AVP comic book where Predators were enormous and had so much armor, and not because of the art, which was very realistic. Bigger and bulkier predators were hunting aliens. And note the armor on Broken Tusk too

Because in the comic, the artwork can still make the Predator look somewhat slim. Transferred over to the screen, you end up with a creation that looks massive and hinders the actor's performance.

Still, AVP remained very truthful and accurate to AVP look, down to the armor and size

[Shadow Hunter]

Brilliant!!!!! (Mostly)