Alien or Predator?

[Quick N Slick]

Not really.  I just reckon they have rules for hunting (like sparing the unarmed or pregnant).  I don't find shooting prey unaware from long range with laser guided energy weapons while cloaked to be especially honourable.

But the scene with Lambert and the tail, and how it gently moves around her?  Hmmm ... it can have sexual connotation to it, but I don't think it's insinuating a form of rape. 

The tail goes between her legs.  Hence the insinuation.  Doesn't mean that's what actually happened, but Riddles is putting the image in our mind.

I agree with you (about the Pred issue) but you can't super-impose human thoughts onto alien minds. Who knows how it thinks about what it's doing.

[Race_of_Hunters]

Not really.  I just reckon they have rules for hunting (like sparing the unarmed or pregnant).  I don't find shooting prey unaware from long range with laser guided energy weapons while cloaked to be especially honourable.

Then that would be your perception.  A deviation on reality.  Do you call human beings who hunt deer for sport, or various other animals dishonorable people?  Do you look down upon them?

And you said it yourself, they have rules.  What are the ingredients or origins of rules?  Ethics and morality.

[Race_of_Hunters]

The tail goes between her legs.  Hence the insinuation.  Doesn't mean that's what actually happened, but Riddles is putting the image in our mind.

No ... I think it takes a bit of reaching to come to that conclusion.

[SM]

Not for those with any sort of imagination.

I agree with you (about the Pred issue) but you can't super-impose human thoughts onto alien minds. Who knows how it thinks about what it's doing.

Who said I was...?

Do you call human beings who hunt deer for sport, or various other animals dishonorable people?

I don't think honour even enters into the argument when it comes to hunting.  With Predators or humans.

[Quick N Slick]

You said, "I don't consider."

[SM]

Yeah and?

How is it any different from someone saying "They're honourable"?

By human standards - cos that's the only one I can apply - I don't believe they're honourable.

[huntin8-t0n]

I don't think honour even enters into the argument when it comes to hunting.  With Predators or humans.

Depends on era, culture and geographical location. For humans.

[Quick N Slick]

Don't act like it wasn't a reasonable inference on my part to see it the way I did.

"I don't consider X honourable."

Well, he's not you. He's not even human. Obviously, that isn't what you meant, but that is more than understandable on someone else's part to infer you were thinking as though he thinks the way we do. He doesn't.

[SM]

Depends on era, culture and geographical location. For humans.

Does it?

I could see some honour in it if you got close enough to a deer (or better yet a bear or something that could really fight back) and were able to take it down hand to hand.  Or even at range witha bow and arrow.  But otherwise - it's simply sport.  I don't see any honour in golf either.

[Race_of_Hunters]

Not for those with any sort of imagination.

You're saying I don't have an imagination because I don't believe that was the intent of a quick shot of the alien's tail wrapping around her leg near the ground?  Why would an Alien creature even have a sexual drive to even insinuate something like that?  It wouldn't even make sense.  It's really you reaching.  If you derive a higher sense of enjoyment from that moment, that is on you and your "imagination" but it is you reaching if you're stating that was Scott's pure intent with that image.  Because the creature is Alien, and none of its other actions represent human based instincts or actions such as the way forceably fornicating with a female would.

I don't think honour even enters into the argument when it comes to hunting.  With Predators or humans.

Way to ignore the rest of the post in which I asked, and you conceded that the Predator does have a sense of rules in regards to hunting.  Where do rules come from?  Ethichs / Morality.  The Predator isn't a beast like monster in the sense that he kills off instinct or for the sake of it.  When he's running around the jungle of Cambodia, or the rooftops of a major metropolitan city like L.A. he isn't killing everything he comes in contact with like say an Alien.

Therefore ... the movie monster known as the Predator does have a code of conduct.

The clan of Predators doesn't slaughter Harrigan when they find him on their ship.  Instead they honor his victory and give him a trophy through their token of respect.  Where does respect come from?  A sense of honor to one's character, or sharing in admiration of qualities in another.  Once again ... rules, ethics, morality, intelligence to decide ... things a Predator has that an Alien does not.

[SM]

You're saying I don't have an imagination because I don't believe that was the intent of a quick shot of the alien's tail wrapping around her leg near the ground?  Why would an Alien creature even have a sexual drive to even insinuate something like that?  It wouldn't even make sense.  It's really you reaching.  If you derive a higher sense of enjoyment from that moment, that is on you and your "imagination" but it is you reaching if you're stating that was Scott's pure intent with that image.  Because the creature is Alien, and none of its other actions represent human based instincts or actions such as the way forceably fornicating with a female would.

Point = well and truly missed.

Way to ignore the rest of the post in which I asked, and you conceded that the Predator does have a sense of rules in regards to hunting.  Where do rules come from?  Ethichs / Morality.  The Predator isn't a beast like monster in the sense that he kills off instinct or for the sake of it.  When he's running around the jungle of Cambodia, or the rooftops of a major metropolitan city like L.A. he isn't killing everything he comes in contact with like say an Alien.

Therefore ... the movie monster known as the Predator does have a code of conduct.

The clan of Predators doesn't slaughter Harrigan when they find him on their ship.  Instead they honor his victory and give him a trophy through their token of respect.  Where does respect come from?  A sense of honor to one's character, or sharing in admiration of qualities in another.  Once again ... rules, ethics, morality, intelligence to decide ... things a Predator has that an Alien does not.

Go you.  I don't agree.  And I think Quick n Slick may object to your superimposing human thoughts onto an alien mind...

[Race_of_Hunters]

I could see some honour in it if you got close enough to a deer (or better yet a bear or something that could really fight back) and were able to take it down hand to hand.  Or even at range witha bow and arrow.  But otherwise - it's simply sport.  I don't see any honour in golf either.

Well that would make you a close minded geek then ... because any "sport" has a sense of honor through competition.  Which essentially Predator's hunts are ... they have a sport like quality to them.  And in this case, a Predator hunting a special forces unit isn't as "dishonorable" as a human killing a deer.  Deer are primitive, don't have weapons or intelligence to match their hunter's counter parts.  The game the Predator hunts can very much fend for themselves as to make it not seem so "dishonorable"

It is you looking down upon the sport of hunting which makes you proclaim them dishonorable.  But in terms of how they are potrayed on screen, they very much have a code of conduct.  Does that mean everything they do is altruistic or ideal?  No ... they kill humans as sport.  But how they do it is honorable to an extent.  They have rules and guidlines.  They don't just kill to kill.  They take mercy on people.

[Race_of_Hunters]

Go you.  I don't agree.  And I think Quick n Slick may object to your superimposing human thoughts onto an alien mind...

If you're reffering to the Predator creature, he'd be wrong as well.  Because the Predator "alien" mind has many examples through its comprable forms of intelligence as showing through numerous examples as having thoughts akin to what the human mind can formulate.

[huntin8-t0n]

Depends on era, culture and geographical location. For humans.

Does it?

I could see some honour in it if you got close enough to a deer (or better yet a bear or something that could really fight back) and were able to take it down hand to hand.  Or even at range witha bow and arrow.  But otherwise - it's simply sport.  I don't see any honour in golf either.

In some cultures, you need to. Sioux or apaches (dunno which) considered it a great deal of bravery and honour if some punched a bear in the nose. Or in the middle ages in going with spear for a boar.  I mentioned era too. I'm not telling about modern day hunting. Just because nowadays hunting doesn't have the same meaning as it had centuries ago, it can have it.

[SM]

Well yeah in the old days, you had to hunt to eat.  I guess in some cultures it had honour involved.  But I think a lot of the time it was just getting food on the table.