Aliens Bishop

Started by felix, Apr 19, 2023, 04:56:25 AM

Author
Aliens Bishop (Read 80,183 times)

Kradan

Kradan

#45
I liked Blue well enough

Spoiler
before the character got turned into a talking Alien
[close]

SiL

SiL

#46
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 21, 2023, 12:33:33 PMI liked Blue well enough

Spoiler
before the character got turned into a talking Alien
[close]
And another thing to dislike...

Simply_Kevin

Simply_Kevin

#47
If you wish you knew more about any of them, following a relative is a logical route. It's a window into their personal lives and good motivation for a new character to pursue what really happened in that mission since WY probably swept it under the rug.

I also feel like we simply need to wait for the novel to understand why rebuild Bishop instead of only accessing his artificial consciousness. We could be getting more info on how advanced androids' minds work (per this author) and we'll see it's not as simple as opening a file on a computer. Maybe what we think is a rebuilt Bishop walking around with Michael is in fact its digital self in a simulation being tricked into thinking he's been rebuilt to his prime and androids' minds are so complex that recovering corrupt data is more like regression hypnosis so they need to revisit Bishop's past.

SiL

SiL

#48
WY couldn't sweep anything under the rug. The marines weren't sent by WY, they didn't report to WY, WY's representative had no authority on the mission. It was a military operation.

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#49
People seem to make that assumption constantly.

Engineer

Engineer

#50
Quote from: Simply_Kevin on Apr 21, 2023, 06:16:09 PMIf you wish you knew more about any of them, following a relative is a logical route. It's a window into their personal lives and good motivation for a new character to pursue what really happened in that mission since WY probably swept it under the rug.

I also feel like we simply need to wait for the novel to understand why rebuild Bishop instead of only accessing his artificial consciousness. We could be getting more info on how advanced androids' minds work (per this author) and we'll see it's not as simple as opening a file on a computer. Maybe what we think is a rebuilt Bishop walking around with Michael is in fact its digital self in a simulation being tricked into thinking he's been rebuilt to his prime and androids' minds are so complex that recovering corrupt data is more like regression hypnosis so they need to revisit Bishop's past.

I don't want to know more about them... or their relatives. We got precisely what we needed to know in the films.

I want a focus on completely new characters with no relations to previous characters.

SiL

SiL

#51
I don't know what else I need to know about any of the marines? I don't get to the end of Aliens and feel like I missed out on something important to understanding their actions and motivations in the story.

xShadowFoxX

xShadowFoxX

#52
Wise words from Joey Tribbiani: "there are no selfless good deeds."

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#53
On one hand a book that deals with Bishop and Michael Bishop is appealing (and bonus points if the book references some of Bishop's background details from the packaging from his 90s Kenner toy), on the other hand the Apone link is pretty wack.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but I'll wait for reviews before I commit to reading it.

Xenomorphine

Xenomorphine

#54
I've never been convinced the character in the third film is even human, mainly because sending a guy with robotics/software expertise on a specimen retrieval mission for the biological warfare division... It never made sense to me then and it doesn't make sense to me now. Whereas something which can have its data erased for plausible deniability totally fits WY's MO.

That said...

This story is either going to have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to work or is going to feel lazy and superficial. Like, why even bother rebuilding Bishop's physical shell? Just copy the data over. And, as was pointed out, what would Bishop even have to offer?

Alright, so... Let's be generous and assume, in addition to spending some time on the facehugger corpse, Bishop would also have access to all the colony laboratory stuff which went on before he got there (which, judging by Ripley's reaction when he goes over it, didn't offer any more understanding than her report included). But it's not like the place is super-advanced. They would have had something at least on par with the Nostromo's 'auto-doc' X-ray thing. Presumably what allowed them to figure out the facehuggers were attempting "embyo implantation" and that removing it from one of them occured before that took place. But what else?

It would have been somewhere industrial-type accidents and maybe exposure to unsafe chemicals/toxic waste could be analysed, diagnosed and treated (at least for however long it would take for a signal to be sent to/received from the closest outpost and a medical ship to cruise out). It might have had an ability to do DNA analysis? Maybe...? Although, even that's a stretch. Why would they even require that ability?

But let's say they somehow gained DNA data. Aside from that, there wouldn't be much else. And it still wouldn't necessitate rebuilding the entire robot, just copying files over.

Apone's relative is... Needless. Fan service has its place and this isn't it.

And why bother with the nonsensical 'dog catcher' costumes? How would they be of any use in getting ahold of Bishop? Or are these meant to just be personnel from the same department? In which case, you're sending staff/thugs trained in biological specimen retrieval after a robot? What?

Maybe the reason this guy is no long with Weyland-Yutani is because he got fired for wasting resources and general ineptitude.

Major odds there'll be an excuse for him and Original Flavour Bishop to verbally negotiate for the data, just to have him say, "Think of all we could learn from it."

judge death

judge death

#55
Its easy: its fan service and easy money grab on using well known names from the franchise that most normal fans have heard about and might get interested in buying. Most franchises sadly falls down into this pit where everything must be connected to something familiar to please most fans possible. Even jaws franchise did this back in the day and star wars now where everything must be a skywalker or obi wan or plagius, tattooine, or any other famous planet, bring back dead charachters! Boba Fett etc.

With disney at the helm and the novels of vasquez relative and spamming out material and now with this Im sure Disney is taking this easy route, sadly.

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#56
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 23, 2023, 02:17:15 PMI've never been convinced the character in the third film is even human, mainly because sending a guy with robotics/software expertise on a specimen retrieval mission for the biological warfare division... It never made sense to me then and it doesn't make sense to me now. Whereas something which can have its data erased for plausible deniability totally fits WY's MO.

That said...

This story is either going to have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to work or is going to feel lazy and superficial. Like, why even bother rebuilding Bishop's physical shell? Just copy the data over. And, as was pointed out, what would Bishop even have to offer?
In the Assembly Cut he is very much human, as well as in the novelization and the script. WY didn't send him as an expert, they sent him because he literally looks like Bishop, someone Ripley knows and trusts. It was full on psychological manipulation.

As for what Bishop knows, I think he could know more than you might think. He had access to the Sulaco's flight recorder for some reason, and they could take the route the final chapter in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual takes and say that the Sulaco's data included everything broadcast to the APC, which includes all of the Marines' cameras. The Sulaco data also included video footage from onboard the Sulaco itself, including the Queen fight.

So yeah, there's easy ways to make Bishop have plenty of useful data that WY could be interested in.

Still Collating...

Still Collating...

#57
Quote from: Retropocalypse on Apr 21, 2023, 08:34:11 AM
Quote from: DavidIsDaddy on Apr 20, 2023, 09:21:17 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 19, 2023, 01:05:10 PMI was okay with this until I saw the Apone family connection.

This took my hype from a 10 to a hard 6.

They're doing the "Star Wars" thing and making every character some related cousin, brother, son, or daughter, to a Legacy character (specifically Aliens) and it's so jarring.

Like, you have this fantastic idea for a sequel novel following Alien 3 and STILL Find a way to work in Apone's brother and Lt. Goreman's niece and they all end up fighting Burke's evil nephew.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not a fan of seeing recurring characters or relatives encounter Xenomorphs like it's a family tradition (aside from Ellen, of course).

Once with Amanda Ripley? Fair enough. Now we've got Olivia Shipp, more Amanda Ripley, Zula Hendricks, the niece & nephew of Vasquez, Apone's brother, Goreman's niece, Cher Hunt, AND Chad McLaren getting involved or having multiple encounters?

Is the Alien universe not big enough for new stories? :(

Yeah, that's really kinda dumb and seriously bringing down the stories for me. And especially that all these reoccurring characters seem "special" and all achieve big important victories against the bad guys. Their plot armor is really showing.

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#58
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 23, 2023, 04:17:50 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 23, 2023, 02:17:15 PMI've never been convinced the character in the third film is even human, mainly because sending a guy with robotics/software expertise on a specimen retrieval mission for the biological warfare division... It never made sense to me then and it doesn't make sense to me now. Whereas something which can have its data erased for plausible deniability totally fits WY's MO.

That said...

This story is either going to have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to work or is going to feel lazy and superficial. Like, why even bother rebuilding Bishop's physical shell? Just copy the data over. And, as was pointed out, what would Bishop even have to offer?
In the Assembly Cut he is very much human, as well as in the novelization and the script. WY didn't send him as an expert, they sent him because he literally looks like Bishop, someone Ripley knows and trusts. It was full on psychological manipulation.

As for what Bishop knows, I think he could know more than you might think. He had access to the Sulaco's flight recorder for some reason, and they could take the route the final chapter in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual takes and say that the Sulaco's data included everything broadcast to the APC, which includes all of the Marines' cameras. The Sulaco data also included video footage from onboard the Sulaco itself, including the Queen fight.

So yeah, there's easy ways to make Bishop have plenty of useful data that WY could be interested in.

Even if we only infer from what Bishop physically saw, he did spend a good long time examining the Facehugger.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#59
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 23, 2023, 04:17:50 PMAs for what Bishop knows, I think he could know more than you might think. He had access to the Sulaco's flight recorder for some reason, and they could take the route the final chapter in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual takes and say that the Sulaco's data included everything broadcast to the APC, which includes all of the Marines' cameras. The Sulaco data also included video footage from onboard the Sulaco itself, including the Queen fight.

But Bishop said that everything in the Sulaco's computer got sent back to the network.

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