Reproduction Method Official

[Luckygreycat]

This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet.

You had to know it'd be a controversial direction when you filmed it, surely?

As for us naysayers...we await the film to prove us wrong as to whether it's a good idea or not. 

My predictions would be; best case scenario the addition works but never shows up again...worst case is future polls asking "Which AvP was worse?"

Im sure this film is going to be at least a little better than the first one, no matter what they f**k up. You'd have to purposefully f**k with shit to not pull that off. lol. But sadly bullshit has been injected, as opposed to "returning to the roots of the franchises". Yeah i forget which classic Alien film features an alien vomiting in someone's mouth. Oh wait..there wasn't one. It is not canon anymore than ideas in the comics that take a new and weird direction that is completely unnecessary are. I suppose the alien King is next, or some xenozip made from the "royal jelly" lol.
Its not just a matter of "nothing in the other films will contradict something" its also a matter of "is it necessary and does it explain something else that needs an explanation but we've never seen, but have wondered about". I don't think the vomiting fits the latter category. The young queen thing is fine, provided there was no regular alien molting into one. That is a good example of something you know exists in the alien lore, but we've just never seen. Like the aliens actually constructing the hive. We know they do it, so a film that wanted to show that, would not be breaking canon.

However not doing your homework on the alien franchise and all the lore regarding their lifecycle/reproductive cycle is tantamount to a slap in the face of the fans. You can't introduce any idea you want and defend it by saying, "it doesn't contradict anything we already know and have seen".
By this logic, extremes of never-intended alien behavior or lifecycle adaptations could fill the gap, but they really shouldn't be resorted to. There needs to be some respect for giger's design and for what the directors of the better films of the franchise have done with it.

So here's an idea how about cut the vomit scenes from the film and save them as deleted scenes when the dvd comes out, and optional ones as well not spliced back into the film. I think that would stop everyone's bitching. But i suppose its past the editing phase.

I don't think we can blame the Strause brothers.  It sounds like they are plugged into the ethos of the alien concept but we have to remember that there are always suits saying no that's too expensive and putting their foot down and saying that the studio wants this or that.  The Strause brothers had these kinds of constraints I'm sure.  It will never be perfect for this reason.  All the brothers can do is their best under the circumstances imposed on them by the suits.  Good luck Colin and thanks for giving us something to hope for again.

[Ballzanya]

However not doing your homework on the alien franchise and all the lore regarding their lifecycle/reproductive cycle is tantamount to a slap in the face of the fans. You can't introduce any idea you want and defend it by saying, "it doesn't contradict anything we already know and have seen".
By this logic, extremes of never-intended alien behavior or lifecycle adaptations could fill the gap, but they really shouldn't be resorted to. There needs to be some respect for giger's design and for what the directors of the better films of the franchise have done with it.

But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:

Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).

Alien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.

Alien Resurrection - the newborn.

AVP - sped up lifecycle.

So maybe it's better if aliens could just reproduce however they see fit.  Afterall, they're alien.

Hey I'm not aruing that Alien 3, Alien Resurrection and the first avp did not have lots of problems and have liberties taken with them. I agree they have things that suck in them. But that doesn't mean its ok to do so in avp-r just because those films did.
Also i thought the directors were only using "Alien, Aliens" and "predator" as their template. Hard to f**k shit up if you do that, it really is, as nothing in those films comes close to being arbitary, convulted bullshit. They are good sci-fi films that take what otherwise would essentially be a lame b-movie and make it into an A movie.

[Anomaly]

But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:

Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).

First of all i found this "egg morphing" idea to be monstrous lol

Alien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.

There was no theory there at all. It was a screw up with no thought put into it. The fans made theories.

Alien Resurrection - the newborn.

See this is why fans complain about newly arrived crap movies, because it bites the entire franchise in the ass sooner or later and ends up in one of these posts

Vomit isnt the answer to anything in alien, only for accidental bleach ingestion.

[Ballzanya]

But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:

Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).

First of all i found this "egg morphing" idea to be monstrous lol

Alien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.

There was no theory there at all. It was a screw up with no thought put into it. The fans made theories.

Alien Resurrection - the newborn.

See this is why fans complain about newly arrived crap movies, because it bites the entire franchise in the ass sooner or later and ends up in one of these posts

Vomit isnt the answer to anything in alien, only for accidental bleach ingestion.

or the lousy superman vs aliens comic book series, in which he vomits up the chestburster inside hm and he's just fine and dandy afterwards. lol (seriously it happened in that comic)

[Uncanny Antman]

But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:

There is a difference between 'screwed with' and expanded upon within the parameters already set.

Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen

So killed an idea that was not canonical to begin with.  The Queen filled a void left by the theatrical, and for a long time only cut of Alien.  She logically filled the void, too.

Alien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.

How does that count?  Not knowing how it got there has nothing to do with the lifecycle.  Unless you're claiming that spontaneous egg growth from nothing is where that egg came from.

Alien Resurrection - the newborn.

A deviation, to be sure.  But one caused by meddling.  It is not a natural part of the life cycle.

AVP - sped up lifecycle.

No argument there. 

So maybe it's better if aliens could just reproduce however they see fit.  Afterall, they're alien.

And maybe the Aliens should all wear pink skirts and recite Klingon opera.  After all...

or the lousy superman vs aliens comic book series, in which he vomits up the chestburster inside hm and he's just fine and dandy afterwards. lol (seriously it happened in that comic)

What's wrong with that?  Once Supes was back in a yellow sun environment, the chestburster stood no chance.  The only question is what it was doing in his stomach.  (Maybe it was in his lung for some reason? )

[Ballzanya]

also about how queens could be created without resorting to molting. The aliens:colonial marines technical manual says this: (i know it technically is a comic and the comics are largely considered non-canon, except when they deal with stuff that has been featured in the films without deviating from it but nonetheless)
i posted this is another thread, but i think it needs to be here to.

"So how do queens get created?" You would think that in the Nostromo encounter, the first creature out of the egg would have been a queen so that it could lay new eggs."
"Not necessarily- the first several could be workers in order to ascertain the environment and the presence of viable rival queens. If there are none, they could broadcast that information back to an ovomorph, probably via enzymes, and prime the egg so that the next host they find and capture would be impregnated by a queen embryo."

So you have a queen facehugger, you have egg morphing, and you even have this ^ which are all more plausible than molting into a f**king queen. Seriously molting into a queen doesn't belong in an alien film any more than a praetorian does.

Egg morphing may be somewhat controversial, but it was at least featured in a film, even if in a deleted scene reinstated in a director's cut. That's more than you can say for either the queen molting or the vomiting embryo bullshit.

[Anomaly]

Its not just a matter of "nothing in the other films will contradict something" its also a matter of "is it necessary and does it explain something else that needs an explanation but we've never seen, but have wondered about".

Its also a matter of if the idea is smooth enough to work. STYLE is key as well. Movies need to be smooth and slick to work, not tacky.

[SiL]

This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet.

Saying 'Shut up and wait for the movie' isn't exactly the best way to kill people's doubts.

Besides which, seeing it happen isn't going to magically correct the continuity problems. 'Oh, so that's how it puts it in the throat! Well, that's entirely alright then! Even the molting!'

Huh, no ...

[Ballzanya]

Its not just a matter of "nothing in the other films will contradict something" its also a matter of "is it necessary and does it explain something else that needs an explanation but we've never seen, but have wondered about".

Its also a matter of if the idea is smooth enough to work. STYLE is key as well. Movies need to be smooth and slick to work, not tacky.

oh indeed, they have to be logical and practical ideas as well. But for the point i was arguing those points seemed the most relevant.

[Ballzanya]

This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet.

Saying 'Shut up and wait for the movie' isn't exactly the best way to kill people's doubts.

Besides which, seeing it happen isn't going to magically correct the continuity problems. 'Oh, so that's how it puts it in the throat! Well, that's entirely alright then! Even the molting!'

Huh, no[/o] ...

i know, come on. Im starting to think that If paul anderson were on these boards, he would do a better job sticking up for himself and his ideas/what he did in avp more so than colin is here. It may be because he is busy, but if that's the case why post a one sentence post like this to begin with?

If he's active on this board this much and reads this stuff, even if selectively, why not logically defend the ideas in a way that will seem like he knows what he's doing? Instead we get. "how do you know the queen in aliens ...(paraphrasing) wasn't a dominant warrior that molted into a young queen" and "wait til you see the film before judging it". Not too reassurring.

[gameoverman]

But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:

There is a difference between 'screwed with' and expanded upon within the parameters already set.

Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen

So killed an idea that was not canonical to begin with.  The Queen filled a void left by the theatrical, and for a long time only cut of Alien.  She logically filled the void, too.

But that ruins the 'egg morphing to make Queens' idea.  If they could egg morph, why bother with the Queen?

Alien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.

How does that count?  Not knowing how it got there has nothing to do with the lifecycle.  Unless you're claiming that spontaneous egg growth from nothing is where that egg came from.

Well we don't know how the egg got there and why it contained a Queen.  If it was the Queen that laid them, then I can accept that to create a new Queen to replace her.  However, that relies on the fact there is already a Queen in existence.

Alien Resurrection - the newborn.

A deviation, to be sure.  But one caused by meddling.  It is not a natural part of the life cycle.

Yeah but it's a bit strange that the Queen was normal, then just mutated a human reproductive system.  And how did she produce the Newborn, anyway, without a host?

So maybe it's better if aliens could just reproduce however they see fit.  Afterall, they're alien.

And maybe the Aliens should all wear pink skirts and recite Klingon opera.  After all...

I wouldn't go that far.  

[Gates]

[...] It may be because he is busy, but if that's the case why post a one sentence post like this to begin with?

That's because he's trying to get a reaction out of us because it amuses him...

[Xenomorphine]

This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet.

You know you love us for it - Fox could never have bought this level of publicity.

Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).

Not if egging is the emergency method to get a Queen-carrying facehugger, which seems to be the most logical conclusion. It preserves the 'naturally born' feature, too.

Queens make more mathematical sense, host-wise, once one exists.

Like I've said, I have a suspicion that this will be a wonderfully disturbing thing to see on screen. Just not yet finding a way to make it logically fit with what we know about them. It's the kind of direction they perhaps should have gone for with 'Alien 3', but it's more than a decade too late to worry about that.

Plus, most of us weren't on the ye olde Internet, back then.

[Anomaly]

Its just adding more gruesome content for their "Rated R and grotesquely disgusting!" slant. I think ballzanya and I have already shown the options they have, and therye the most logical and smooth.

[SiL]

But that ruins the 'egg morphing to make Queens' idea.  If they could egg morph, why bother with the Queen?

Mass production without the need for host resource consumption.

Yeah but it's a bit strange that the Queen was normal, then just mutated a human reproductive system.  And how did she produce the Newborn, anyway, without a host?

The Queen clearly wasn't normal for the reason you just stated - Mutated reproductive system. Seeing as Aliens reproduce asexually, what we got was a hybrid of the Queen reproductive method and a human one, which resulted in a hybrid of people and Aliens.