Alien: Romulus Catch-All Thread

[Nightmare Asylum]

Isn't there a Covenant thread where this conversation should be taking place?

Sorry, there's currently a Prometheus conversation happening there.

[GrimmVision]

• Dallas and Lambert insisting on bringing Kane back inside the Nostromo knowing they'd break quarantine guidelines
• The horror trope of splitting up
• Ripley going back for the cat
• The marines not listening to Apone or Gorman and firing their weapons in the area where they rupture the cooling system of the primary heat exchangers
• Ferro and Spunkmeyer keeping the dropship's cargo door open even after knowing several of their platoon just got annihilated by the Aliens
• Not keeping someone on Watch Burke Duty after they they find out he "made a bad call"

There's many an example where dumb decisions are made by characters within these films we love so much. We've just learned to deal with them because nostalgia while Prometheus and Covenant continue to get a bad rap.

[The Cruentus]

• Dallas and Lambert insisting on bringing Kane back inside the Nostromo knowing they'd break quarantine guidelines
• The horror trope of splitting up
• Ripley going back for the cat
• The marines not listening to Apone or Gorman and firing their weapons in the area where they rupture the cooling system of the primary heat exchangers
• Ferro and Spunkmeyer keeping the dropship's cargo door open even after knowing several of their platoon just got annihilated by the Aliens
• Not keeping someone on Watch Burke Duty after they they find out he "made a bad call"

There's many an example where dumb decisions are made by characters within these films we love so much. We've just learned to deal with them because nostalgia while Prometheus and Covenant continue to get a bad rap.

Ash let them in so he broke quarantine. Ripley made it clear she wasn't going to let them in.
They stuck together until Brett let the cat go.
Granted that is stupid but emotional connections
Panic and they were not told why they should not fire.
They were in the middle of nowhere and had no reason to believe something would sneak onboard, besides we don't know if they actually knew what JUST happened.
8ft tall monsters dropping from ceiling takes priority....

[GrimmVision]

And if anyone is expecting Romulus to be completely free of character-made dumb decisions, I guess we're gonna have something else to talk about for 12 years

[The Cruentus]

Hopefully the characters aren't covenant/prometheus level stupid. 

[Local Trouble]

Let's try to keep it to Kane/Gorman-level stupidity.

[The Cruentus]

Maybe even better than that, intelligent characters dying makes for better presentation of threat level...and you don't facepalm. 

[GrimmVision]

Ash let them in so he broke quarantine. Ripley made it clear she wasn't going to let them in.
They stuck together until Brett let the cat go.
Granted that is stupid but emotional connections
Panic and they were not told why they should not fire.
They were in the middle of nowhere and had no reason to believe something would sneak onboard, besides we don't know if they actually knew what JUST happened.
8ft tall monsters dropping from ceiling takes priority....

• Dallas and Lambert attempting to break quarantine was the dumb idea, even if Ash wasn't there.
• They still split up. And they split up again at the end with Ripley on her own and Lambert and Parker together.
• Had Ripley not taken the time to get sidetracked by Jonesy, Lambert's and Parker's fate may have changed
• Doesn't matter why they weren't told to fire, they disobeyed their superiors
• Literally everyone else was connected by earpieces but those two weren't?
• There was absolutely at least a handful of hours Burke could've been watched once Ripley said she was "happy to disappoint" him

[The Cruentus]

Ash let them in so he broke quarantine. Ripley made it clear she wasn't going to let them in.
They stuck together until Brett let the cat go.
Granted that is stupid but emotional connections
Panic and they were not told why they should not fire.
They were in the middle of nowhere and had no reason to believe something would sneak onboard, besides we don't know if they actually knew what JUST happened.
8ft tall monsters dropping from ceiling takes priority....

• Dallas and Lambert attempting to break quarantine was the dumb idea, even if Ash wasn't there.
• They still split up. And they split up again at the end with Ripley on her own and Lambert and Parker together.
• Had Ripley not taken the time to get sidetracked by Jonesy, Lambert's and Parker's fate may have changed
• Doesn't matter why they weren't told to fire, they disobeyed their superiors
• Literally everyone else was connected by earpieces but those two weren't?
• There was absolutely at least a handful of hours Burke could've been watched once Ripley said she was "happy to disappoint" him

Ripley had authority, Ash broke it. Characters acting emotional is not issue, especially when other characters point out the problem.
First time due to the cat, second time was because they were preparing the shuttle and multiple jobs had to be done at the same time.
The Marines authority problem was established since their introduction and you can't expect them not to defend themselves from 8ft tall monsters without being told why.
Earpieces are not active 24/7.
He hadn't done anything intentionally malicious until the facehugger part. While he got colonists killed, he didn't know that would happen.

[SiL]

• Dallas and Lambert attempting to break quarantine was the dumb idea, even if Ash wasn't there.

Motivated by concern for their fellow crew member.

• They still split up. And they split up again at the end with Ripley on her own and Lambert and Parker together.

It's dumb when you know the Alien can grow to 8 feet tall in a matter of hours, not when you think they're chasing a snake.

Had Ripley not taken the time to get sidetracked by Jonesy, Lambert's and Parker's fate may have changed

Later they're all armed. Ripley would be in no more position to use her flamethrower than Parker was, for the same reason - Lambert was in the way.

• Doesn't matter why they weren't told to fire, they disobeyed their superiors

Consistent with their characterisation. Their firing didn't do the damage though, the dropship did.

• Literally everyone else was connected by earpieces but those two weren't?

Interference from the structure.

• There was absolutely at least a handful of hours Burke could've been watched once Ripley said she was "happy to disappoint" him

They were all watching for Aliens trying to get in, and didn't think Burke would be dumb enough to try shit.

Most of these examples are only dumb from an audience's perspective with information not available to the characters.

[razeak]

Covenant is a decent movie, I have always said so but its what it does to the lore that makes it hard to watch for me personally. That and its reliance on sheer stupidity on the characters part for the plot to move along.

Hence "dumbass colonists".

we didn't witness them do anything utterly stupid and moronic.

[Acid_Reign161]

Can I just add; even if Ash hadn't overridden Ripley's order to uphold quarantine procedures, it would have made no difference to the outcome; within the 24 hour quarantine, Kane would have popped, leaving the following outcomes;

1: Ripley maintains quarantine leaving Dallas and Lambert in an airlock with a creature that will rapidly grow and annihilate them. Ripley opens the outer airlock to let it outside/get rid of it, and it simply hitches a ride on the hull until it finds a way inside.

2: She caves to her emotional attachment and opens the door, and the xeno is now inside.

3: Parker and Brett rig some flame units thinking they can kill it and open the inner door. The xeno is now inside.

4: the xeno pops and escapes the airlock, choosing either inside or outside, but the end result is the same as scenario 1 & 2.

The only hopeful option would be to keep it locked in the airlock until in space, then open the outer door and hope the decompression pulls it out at speeds like Kanes body was. However since 1; Ripley doesn't know that it can survive in a vacuum, and 2; she is also unaware of the acid blood and its ability to get through hull/bulkheads with ease...

It always gets inside.

[solace97]

Can I just add; even if Ash hadn't overridden Ripley's order to uphold quarantine procedures, it would have made no difference to the outcome; within the 24 hour quarantine, Kane would have popped, leaving the following outcomes;

1: Ripley maintains quarantine leaving Dallas and Lambert in an airlock with a creature that will rapidly grow and annihilate them. Ripley opens the outer airlock to let it outside/get rid of it, and it simply hitches a ride on the hull until it finds a way inside.

2: She caves to her emotional attachment and opens the door, and the xeno is now inside.

3: Parker and Brett rig some flame units thinking they can kill it and open the inner door. The xeno is now inside.

4: the xeno pops and escapes the airlock, choosing either inside or outside, but the end result is the same as scenario 1 & 2.

The only hopeful option would be to keep it locked in the airlock until in space, then open the outer door and hope the decompression pulls it out at speeds like Kanes body was. However since 1; Ripley doesn't know that it can survive in a vacuum, and 2; she is also unaware of the acid blood and its ability to get through hull/bulkheads with ease...

It always gets inside.

Or maybe it drags Dallas and lambert to the derelict to create more xenomorphs and possibly comes back to the nostromo

[razeak]

Ash let them in so he broke quarantine. Ripley made it clear she wasn't going to let them in.
They stuck together until Brett let the cat go.
Granted that is stupid but emotional connections
Panic and they were not told why they should not fire.
They were in the middle of nowhere and had no reason to believe something would sneak onboard, besides we don't know if they actually knew what JUST happened.
8ft tall monsters dropping from ceiling takes priority....

• Dallas and Lambert attempting to break quarantine was the dumb idea, even if Ash wasn't there.
• They still split up. And they split up again at the end with Ripley on her own and Lambert and Parker together.
• Had Ripley not taken the time to get sidetracked by Jonesy, Lambert's and Parker's fate may have changed
• Doesn't matter why they weren't told to fire, they disobeyed their superiors
• Literally everyone else was connected by earpieces but those two weren't?
• There was absolutely at least a handful of hours Burke could've been watched once Ripley said she was "happy to disappoint" him

Lightyears from home......a creature attached to a dudes face.....I would think their desperation to get inside because of crushing fear is a hell of a different flavor than cantrememberhername wandering off to wash up after they got their faces kicked in by bullet resistant monsters.  If cantrememberhername ran off during the attack in the field, it would be an understandable act of fear. Big difference.

Weren't they trying to narrow down the chances the chest burster could get away by trying to corner it between the two groups? Was Dallas and the rest hanging out in the rec room while Ripley and the other two were hunting or am I confused?  Brett died because they didn't realize what they were up against and a lack of knowledge, not a lack of intelligence.  Mean they at least had a cattle prod and a net to face the thing that looked like a snake. They didn't try to pet the cobra analog like in Prometheus.
Icantrememberhername also knew the creatures were incredibly lethal and aggressive.

The Marines weren't stupid to disobey orders. What were they supposed to do stand there and get mauled? History is full of soldiers taking steps to increase their chances of survival because of incompetent or inexperienced rank. You're making it a black and white issue on orders when that's not reality.  I literally work with people that are alive today because of just that. The Marines were overconfident, but they still knew there was a danger, and that could have only gotten more serious to them as they moved into the hive. They were shown to start fraying around the edges as soon as they got there.

Drake and Vasquez were connected, and they heard Apone give the order. They also knew that they were now in the lion's den. The only reason they lasted long enough to get to the APC was because 3 of them directly disobeyed orders.

I think that the conversation about the heat exchangers did not include the squad. They only got the order. They might have all followed orders if Gorman took a second to tell them why. They might have tried pistols instead of smart guns even.

The dumb part is not falling back and regrouping. Again, at least Gorman was buckling under pressure and his inexperience led him to analysis paralysis.

I'll give Icantrememberhername a little credit though. It's very likely she wasn't thinking clearly, it just wasn't shown like it was with Gorman.

As for Burke, there actually is a bit of truth and logic to his defense of sending the colonists to investigate the derelict versus assuming he would intentionally commit a double murder of a woman and child.  He hadn't shown that. Not to mention the Marines were his only chance of surviving. That would be a pretty big leap. Hell, maybe it was a bad call and he wasn't being nefarious until his ass was on the line in the colony.

I think there is way more nuance in Alien and Aliens than the prequels by a country mile.

The backburster and ensuing chaos made perfect sense to me. I've seen it as an example before. Like damn. I would have freaked out and blown myself up too lol.

Petting space cobras though ......never haha.  I think Covenant is the more complete film of the two. My big gripe is dumber characters than the other movies haha....and the lore change.

Forgive me for the novel. I'm restless with insomnia.

2: She caves to her emotional attachment and opens the door, and the xeno is now inside.

It always gets inside.

This. Kane gives birth and Ripley may try to save those two due to witnessing the horror and going into a panic.

[PsyKore]

More like it was a movie that could have been b-grade but was instead was good enough to be A-grade. I think even crew thought it was going to be a B-movie actually. Not that B movies are bad of course.

Alien's characters doesn't do anything nearly as stupid as covenant characters.

To compare the more stand out ones.

Kane vs Oram.

Kane was in a suit and had no reason to suspect anything as things looked long dead in the derelict. As far as he knew as well, the inside of the derelict had the same atmosphere as the outside, meaning he probably didn't think somethign would just jump out unimpeded. His personality was established via some dialogue. Doesn't excuse his foolishness though, caution should have still been followed but at least there is more to justify it.

Oram just experienced the threats the pathogen-generated creatures pose and David outright tells and shows him their origins. He then shows him the "successors" i.e the same type of infectious parasitic creature that killed his crew but more advanced, and he sticks his head into something because an android told him too.

Brett vs Rosenthal. Brett thought he was still looking for something small and because he let the cat escape, he was told by the others to find it, also he was in a ship he knew well. He didn't expect an 8ft tall monster to be roaming around. Again still foolish but not as bad as Rosie.

Rosie saw what the Neomorphs did, how dangerous they are and that at least one was still roaming about somewhere.
she was is in an unfamiliar area with the outside area filled with corpses, yet she decided to go off alone just to clean a wound that a simple first aid kit could have done.  At the very least there should have been a buddy system. Two people at least to watch eachother's back.

Then you got that character that near enough shoves his face into a spore pod thingy.

Yeah.. I don't disagree. Although I think there can be conditions built from the viewer to explain away behaviour. Personally, I think it's stupid for Brett to go looking for the snake that just burst out of his friend (seriously, I've been up close to a snake, they are intimidating; there's no way I'd go off looking for one that just chewed from inside of my friend! ). Other people will look at it more logically though.

But the typical style or beats of these films hearken a lot to slasher territory. Eg. people splitting up, guy wandering off alone and never comes back, people picked off one-by-one, etc. When Brett wanders off going "here puss puss puss," you know he's gonna die. Likewise when David lure's Oram, you know he's gonna die. Whether Covenant is stupider or not, I don't really care to be honest, but it follows the same set-ups that Alien does.