Stupidity of the Ego: In defence of Prometheus and Covenant

[Kradan]

I like both Ash and Bishop but find David much more interesting to unfold character .

[D. Compton Ambrose]

I think they are far more believable as androids. One thing the original Alien films did justice was portraying "hard sci-fi" and when looked at closely the entire premise of the prequels becomes incredibly absurd to consider as "main Alien films," particularly with the super emotional and human David whom I almost believe would have been better off as a cyborg or "transhuman". It just feels absurdly like trying to fit the cube into the triangle slot having him be an Android. Ash works as a non-human antagonist because it is heavily implied he is operating on Mother's command, not vice-versa...

[The Old One]

I understand that point of view but don't agree. I think David as a prototype is very interesting, as it shows why the increasingly more robotic generational alterations even exist.

[FenGiddel]

... it is heavily implied he is operating on Mother's command, not vice-versa...

I must've missed that. Where did you note the implication that he is on Mother's command?

[The Old One]

I think that's just his "interpretation" of it.

[FenGiddel]

I think that's just his "interpretation" of it.

Right, and thank you, but I was asking him to clarify.

[Kradan]

I understand that point of view but don't agree. I think David as a prototype is very interesting, as it shows why the increasingly more robotic generational alterations even exist.

I like this too .

[D. Compton Ambrose]

I must've missed that. Where did you note the implication that he is on Mother's command?

"Special Order-937: Priority 1 - bring back life-form. All other priorities rescinded."

"There is an explanation you know."

*Cue Ash vs. Ripley, Lambert and Parker over the Alien*

"You read it, I thought it was clear."

"Damn company. What about our lives you son of a bitch?!"

The commands he is programmed with are interpreted in his android "brain" (Hyperdyne processor? Mainframe? etc?) as essentially a cultlike following of MOTHER's priorities involving the preeminence of preserving the organism for the Company, which he is programmed to essentially worship via MOTHER. Like the earlier poster said, it is my interpretation.

[SM]

Ash follows orders (rather than programming) issued by his superiors (not Mother).

Not much different to a human.

[David Weyland]

I think the setup to conclude the prequels moving into Alien itself from a WY and Muthr point of view is that the A.I. of WY aka David hack (or become one with each other) to control the WY online network thus able to steer events, control ships, change science officers & whitewash event logs etc in pursuit of obtaining the Alien...without any actual human beings of 'The Company' up to and including at the start of Aliens having any actual plausible knowledge of the truth because the A.I. Of WY has insidiously taken control by way of David's infiltration..you could argue the events of the Advent extra could dispute this as then who is David transmitting his olive branch to?..But a third film could iron that out but I just find the whole premise of the story arc more scary of, Technology in a sense becoming sentient through David to pursue its own objectives rather than just greedy selfish WY execs happy to expend the Nostromo crew for the Xenos
It is beyond that point people like Burke take an interest that you could say that the humans of WY want it but I think the above idea is plausible

[SM]

If David becomes the Network to steer events toward the destruction of humanity - why is he so singularly bad at it?

[David Weyland]

 
It's just silly fun conjecture but probably the derelict (If we go along with the Covenant idea that David creates the Xenos) is a scuppered last chance for him following defeat or loss of his Xenos of some kind in a third prequel film.
David infiltrates/uploads into Ash as He did Walter and or for a moment in time anyway inhibits but perhaps does not control the online WY network (Bit like Lawnmower man) to chase down the lost bounty of the derelict and fulfill his goal (As he sees it) of the destruction of humanity by reprogramming the Nostromo & it's Muthr by way of the skeleton keys & access codes of some kind gifted to David by his Pops.

[bb-15]

* In the film Fifield was lost for about 15 minutes before the storm.
- All that needs to be shown in the movie is that before Fifield got lost, he was very stressed.
- He was stressed when he entered the tunnels giving an exhale.
- When he saw the dead Engineer, he furiously yelled at Shaw. (He leaves very stressed out and got lost in the 15 minutes before the storm.)
- Completely plausible imo.

How is it plausible that the guy with the map gets lost while also having contact with the mothership that shows a 3D representation of the map including their positions?

It's plausible because such behavior when stressed, happened in a movie, "Jurassic Park", in our world with airline pilots & with people using GPS, again when they are stressed.
- Having a map means little if a person can't think straight because they are agitated.
- As, for Fifield contacting the mothership, he didn't realize he was lost instantly. It took him about 15 minutes to figure out he had gotten lost. By that time contacting the mothership would do no good because of the storm (as we see in the film).

- With "Alien" there is the Dan O'Brannon version/view and the David Giler/Walter Hill version/view.
- I go along with the Giler/Hill version which is used in the novelization for "Alien" because it explains why the Nostromo is at LV-426 & partly explains why Ash behaves the way he does.

The O'Bannon version didn't have the Compnay or Ash.  In the O'Bannon version they responded to the signal.

I understand that.
This is why I clearly stated "I go along with the Giler/Hill version which is used in the novelization for "Alien" because it explains why the Nostromo is at LV-426 & partly explains why Ash behaves the way he does."

I do not accept the theory that all the Nostromo crew were dumb because they operated a space tug.

Has anyone ever posited that theory?

A bit on AVPgalaxy. Also, on the old IMDb forums.
Usually the dumb tug crew theory is used to justify why Kane stuck his head/helmet in front of a moving, giant egg.

* "Aliens";
Burke had the dumb idea of sending the colonists on LV-426 to the Xenomorph hive thinking he could control the situation & smuggle out some specimens.
He knew the dangers that Ripley told him but ignored it.
Foolish.

It's only foolish if you think Burke gives a shit.

Actually Burke does give a shit about his own life. His plan did a poor job of risk assessment for himself and that led to his own death.

- Ripley doesn't trust the company because she believes they would ignore the danger & she kills herself.

Is this supposed to be a dumb decision?

Her decision is based on the dumb behavior of the company which is part of the backstory of "Alien 3", "Aliens" (Burke) & "Alien" (using the Giler/Hill version).

- In the franchise this is the dumbest thing that a science character does by far. Mainly because the scientists in "Alien 4" have complete knowledge of what the xenomorphs could do.

They don't have a complete knowledge.

Is this a philosphy statement? If so, yes, no one is God which = complete knowledge.
But in practical terms in doing genetic, Xenomorph/human hybrids in "Alien 4";
The scientists in "Alien 4" would have had the knowledge which would tell them that the experiment with the 3 xenomorphs in the same room was a very bad idea.
After all, hybrid Ripley had acid blood. There was no secret about that part of Xenomorph biology in A4.
- Again, the experiment was the worst decision by a science character in the Alien franchise.



PS.

The guy who not only has the map, but who apparently owns the mapping hardware and is clearly capable of reading a map.

It does not matter how knowledgeable a person is with map hardware/software; if they are very agitated, they can make a mistake. Fifield was clearly agitated.   
We saw this in "Jurassic Park" where the simplest turn is forgotten by an expert computer engineer who had set up the network on the island.
In our non fiction world airline pilots who are the world's top experts in commercial aviation navigation, have missed airports with working instrumentation, full visibility & familiarity with the area just because the pilots were agitated during an argument.

[SiL]

It does not matter how knowledgeable a person is with map hardware/software; if they are very agitated, they can make a mistake. Fifield was clearly agitated.   
We saw this in "Jurassic Park" where the simplest turn is forgotten by an expert computer engineer who had set up the network on the island.

This all ignores how film storytelling works.

Fifield can make a mistake, but the mistake must be explained. He's established as the guy with the mapping hardware, who has the map, who leads the crew around, who's in contact with the mothership. Suddenly, he's been lost for some time, with no communication with the mothership. Him getting lost, and the mothership not noticing, needs some sort of explanation given the setup. None is given, ergo, it's a plothole -- a hole in the established events and characterisation of the story.

As for Nedry, firstly he's established as a computer engineer, not any sort of navigator. Secondly, his getting lost is explained thoroughly; the weather is terrible, visibility is poor, and the signage to his destination isn't clear. His skills as a computer programmer are utterly inconsequential to his ability to navigate.

[SM]

One line of dialogue about interference or someone other than Fifield getting lost and the plot hole is explained.

Didn't work out that way.