AVPR- LIGHTING

[TurokSwe]

Yeah, both of you present curious mixtures of emotion and logic

Perhaps to some extent.

I sense someone 'promoting falsehood'...

Oh how do you mean?

At least it's not a f**kin' canon debate.

Thank goodness.

Nothing too bad happens? Xenomorphs overrun and eradicate entire civilizations isn't "too bad"? Come on.

Compared to the global catastrophe the original series threatens, no. It's always contained. And the Predators do the wiping out.

Oh come on now, you can always find a worse comparison (for example Xenomorphs taking over the entire globe is not too bad compared to if they had taken over the entire galaxy), but be honest with me here for once, you can't seriously insist that having them overrun and eradicate entire civilizations isn't a bad thing. If you're just gonna move the goalposts then why do you even attempt to discuss this? And what does it matter who wipes them out? Surely you must realize how silly this reasoning is. Noting that all the films have been "contained" to some extent. None of this nullifies the threat of a Xenomorph invasion, regardless of extent.

[SiL]

If you're just gonna move the goalposts then why do you even attempt to discuss this?

I haven't shifted any goalposts. We've been talking about a specific scenario posited by the original films this entire time, which was Aliens wiping out life on Earth if they got there.

Wiping out a small South American civilisation -- and, again, that wasn't the Aliens, it was the Predators doing damage control -- is not as bad as the scenario warned about in the original films, no.

The whole point was that if they got to Earth, it would be about impossible to contain them.

AvP says no.

That's it.

[TurokSwe]

If you're just gonna move the goalposts then why do you even attempt to discuss this?

I haven't shifted any goalposts. We've been talking about a specific scenario posited by the original films this entire time, which was Aliens wiping out life on Earth if they got there.

Wiping out a small South American civilisation -- and, again, that wasn't the Aliens, it was the Predators doing damage control -- is not as bad as the scenario warned about in the original films, no.

The whole point was that if they got to Earth, it would be about impossible to contain them.

AvP says no.

That's it.

My point was to highlight that your logic didn't make any sense. Why is a civilization-wide infestation "not too bad"? I reckon that would already be too bad, and a global infestation would only be worse, and even worse a galaxy-wide infestation. And the Predators didn't eradicate the civilization, but the Xenomorphs eradicated the civilization, while the Predators just eradicated the Xenomorphs. Yes, it could be near impossible to contain them, which we get a taste of much better in both AVP and AVPR than we do in any of the other films, and they certainly don't say anything different, but they're presenting that same idea and making it clear why we can't allow them to come back.

But that idea of an infestation that is impossible to defeat also presupposes that the infestation was actually allowed to reach beyond that point of no-return and that it wasn't stopped while it could still be stopped (just like it was stopped in every other film or any other works). Also noting that the concern Ripley had in fighting the Xenomorphs wasn't just that they could take over Earth, but it was a very general concern that humans should not be exposed to them at all, and just because infestations in their early stages was successfully eradicated in the past doesn't mean that all of a sudden it should be of no concern if they return. That logic doesn't make any sense and I still don't see your problem here.

[Xenomrph]

He's saying that the premise of the Alien movies is that they cannot be contained and letting even one of them get to earth would be a doomsday scenario.

The AvP movies show them getting contained, a contradiction to what Ripley says.

(I think) that's all he's saying.

One could argue that she's not saying the Aliens are the problem so much as the humans are, that it would be human actions that allow the Aliens to spread and devastate the earth. Predators might know how to keep the situation under control, but even in 'Alien3's Assembly Cut' when they literally honest to god genuinely contain the Alien, all it takes is one idiot to let it back out and it's game over. Or in Resurrection when they genuinely had the Aliens locked up in cages, but the humans were dumb enough to put more than one Alien in a cage.

[TurokSwe]

He's saying that the premise of the Alien movies is that they cannot be contained and letting even one of them get to earth would be a doomsday scenario.

The AvP movies show them getting contained, a contradiction to what Ripley says.

(I think) that's all he's saying.

One could argue that she's not saying the Aliens are the problem so much as the humans are, that it would be human actions that allow the Aliens to spread and devastate the earth. Predators might know how to keep the situation under control, but even in 'Alien3's Assembly Cut' when they literally honest to god genuinely contain the Alien, all it takes is one idiot to let it back out and it's game over. Or in Resurrection when they genuinely had the Aliens locked up in cages, but the humans were dumb enough to put more than one Alien in a cage.

I realize that's what he's saying, but it doesn't make any sense. They're no more "contained" (and he doesn't specify an extent) in AVP or AVPR than they are in any of the other films or any other works, and in fact they're much less "contained" than they are shown in the four Alien films.

Ripley doesn't argue that they definitively can't be "contained" (to whatever extent) and she doesn't argue that a Xenomorph reaching Earth definitively means doomsday, but she's clearly arguing from a realistic perspective where we consider Xenomorphs extremely dangerous and capable of causing a doomsday scenario, but not that there definitively will be a global doomsday if they reach Earth.

In other words, there COULD be a doomsday scenario, as there is a high risk for that due to the nature of Xenomorphs, but it's not definitively true that a doomsday scenario will arise once a Xenomorph reaches Earth and starts reproducing itself. Again, the argument Sil makes here doesn't make any sense.

[[cancerblack]]

I realize that's what he's saying, but it doesn't make any sense.

I'm sorry, but it makes complete sense. This thread is f**king painful.

[SM]

Yup.

Oh how do you mean?

Well on one side we have Sil who calmly suffers fools and bad actors, and the other side is a embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger Effect

[SiL]

My point was to highlight that your logic didn't make any sense. Why is a civilization-wide infestation "not too bad"? I reckon that would already be too bad, and a global infestation would only be worse,

Thank you for agreeing that a global infestation would be worse than what AvP shows and agreeing with my point that AvP undermines the threat mentioned in the original movies by showing that doomsday scenario not occurring.

It took a while, but it's nice to see we're on the same page finally.

[[cancerblack]]

Let's remove the titles?

[FILM FRANCHISE] explicitly suggests that if X, then Y. This colours the internal logic of most of [FILM FRANCHISE], and is never really in doubt.

[CROSSOVER FRANCHISE] shows X happening repeatedly, without Y ever happening at all.

[426Buddy]

I realize that's what he's saying, but it doesn't make any sense.

I'm sorry, but it makes complete sense. This thread is f**king painful.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.

I had to look up Dunning-Kruger Effect myself, thanks SM

[SM]

[SiL]

Let's remove the titles?

[FILM FRANCHISE] explicitly suggests that if X, then Y. This colours the internal logic of most of [FILM FRANCHISE], and is never really in doubt.

[CROSSOVER FRANCHISE] shows X happening repeatedly, without Y ever happening at all.

This is the way

[Gr33n M4n]

I've heard that the movie is easier to see with the bluray version. I thought about getting it just for that, but idk.

[SiL]

A little, but it's not a magic fix. The higher dynamic range over the dvd gives a bit more depth, but things like the PredAlien shedding and Drew getting killed in the hive are still basically pitch black.

[TurokSwe]

I realize that's what he's saying, but it doesn't make any sense.

I'm sorry, but it makes complete sense. This thread is f**king painful.

I agree that it's painful, and please explain how his argument supposedly "makes sense".