Work on the Sequels Stopped?

[windebieste]

This may sound stupid but Covenant is a little like from dusk till dawn in that the 2nd half is a very different movie to the first and I think it confused audiences.

The change is much less stark than in Dusk... but, yeah, it was definitely a film of two halves.

It's a bit like Hitchcock's 'Psycho' in this regard.  That movie switches focus from being about a bank heist to Norman Bates being the nutter of the title at a critical point in the movie, the shower scene.  For 'ALIEN: Covenant', the change in direction happens when David arrives to rescue the survivors.  He's a bit like Norman Bates in some ways, I guess.  He takes the survivors into his house of horrors and the themes of the movie shift significantly. 

That's really the 2nd Act of the movie, and it ends once the survivors escape in the loader - but of course, that's not the end of the movie.  'ALIEN Covenant' continues into its 3rd Act, which is different once again and no less distinct being a much more traditional closing Act of the movie.

I guess in that case, the shower scene gets shunted into the 3rd Act of the movie, where it's revealed the final Alien has emerged from Lope, killed  and is now running around loose on the Covenant. 

-Windebieste.

[Corporal Hicks]

Yeah I can't imagine why it would bother anyone.  They didn't have any reason to think they weren't in a secure location.

Same. I get that it's a trope and the audience knows she's in a horror film and know what is coming next but within the context of the film itself, it made sense. They all thought they were safe at this point.

[fiveways]

I'd go back for my cat.  I like my cat more than I like most people.

[Corporal Hicks]

It's not exactly an unknown thing to do. Neither is leaving them. It just depends on the person.

[FiorinaFury161]

I'd go back for my cat.  I like my cat more than I like most people.

I'd go back for my peacock.

[bb-15]

This may sound stupid but Covenant is a little like from dusk till dawn in that the 2nd half is a very different movie to the first and I think it confused audiences.

The change is much less stark than in Dusk... but, yeah, it was definitely a film of two halves.

It's a bit like Hitchcock's 'Psycho' in this regard.  That movie switches focus from being about a bank heist to Norman Bates being the nutter of the title at a critical point in the movie, the shower scene.  For 'ALIEN: Covenant', the change in direction happens when David arrives to rescue the survivors.  He's a bit like Norman Bates in some ways, I guess.  He takes the survivors into his house of horrors and the themes of the movie shift significantly. 

That's really the 2nd Act of the movie, and it ends once the survivors escape in the loader - but of course, that's not the end of the movie.  'ALIEN Covenant' continues into its 3rd Act, which is different once again and no less distinct being a much more traditional closing Act of the movie.

I guess in that case, the shower scene gets shunted into the 3rd Act of the movie, where it's revealed the final Alien has emerged from Lope, killed  and is now running around loose on the Covenant. 

-Windebieste.

"Psycho" is a good example.
But imo "Covenant" also follows the stages of a pretty standard horror film trope.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClosedCircle

** Here are the steps of this kind of story.
* The protagonists method of transportation no longer works. In a classic example a car breaks down/flat tire or the bridge is out and there is a storm.
- With "Covenant" there is a storm which disrupts communication and on the ground there are the black goo spores and monsters. So the shuttle/ship are not available.
- "The Evil Dead" (1981) has a similar variation where the bridge is out and the trees attack people.

* The protagonists seek/accept shelter. Classic examples include a house where the host is a killer. "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" is an iconic example.
- With "Covenant" David provides the house (the Citadel) and he is the killer.
David is an example of the mad scientist variation of this trope.

* There is a monster which gets out of control.
Ironically one film that has many of these plot ideas is Ed Wood's "Bride of the Monster".
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/BrideOfTheMonster
The storm, stranded travelers who seek shelter in the house of a mad scientist who has a monster which gets out of control.
- "Covenant" adds that final touch using the xenomorph as the monster.

* A final deviation from the classic examples with "Covenant" is that the mad scientist (antagonist) is not defeated. But that's common in modern versions of this trope.

[SM]

It's not exactly an unknown thing to do. Neither is leaving them. It just depends on the person.

And the circumstances.  If time was tight, the audience would be more forgiving for not going back for the cat.

[NickisSmart]

If you want people to like your characters, they don't leave children or small animals to die.  That's not dumb.

Do people here watch Super Metroid speedruns? Save the animals, or kill them?

Also, SM, I think, said Daniels, here, is the hero. I would argue that the real hero is David, but he is a Byron hero. And yes, there is a giant difference between that sort of hero and the ordinary kind. And it's relevant because this entire film is one big nod to the British Romantic era, aka Byronic hero worship.

Daniels isn't the hero at all. She's just another victim.

[Terry Chocolate]

So much for staying on topic.

[Paranoid Android]

Yeah I can't imagine why it would bother anyone.  They didn't have any reason to think they weren't in a secure location.

Same. I get that it's a trope and the audience knows she's in a horror film and know what is coming next but within the context of the film itself, it made sense. They all thought they were safe at this point.

In the context of the film itself, the Covenant crew felt safe because:
1. They followed a complete stranger after being attacked by a hostile alien lifeform.
2. Into a giant alien city which had no doors.
3. Said giant alien city was found to be filled with corpses.
4. After being asked if the place is safe, the suspicious stranger told them that it was.

Would you feel safe if a stranger took you hiding in a doorless alien graveyard?

Since people brought up Ripley dosing off in Aliens as a comparison, Ripley dosed off when:
1. She and the rest of the marines got the complete schematics of the complex.
2. Used said schematics to come up with a plan, which included welding off and barricading key doors that blocked entrance to the complex.
3. Assumed the aliens would get in anyway, so they set up sentry turrets at key junctions.
4. Assumed the sentrys won't be enough, so they had Hudson and Vasquez patrolling the corridors with motion trackers.

Only then did Ripley fall saleep, after Hicks telling her to do so and in a room monitored by video cameras.

It is pretty clear why people got annoyed by Rosenthal's tropey "let me wander off by myself so that the script could kill me off" approach. It made no sense other than the script wanting her dead (which is a recurring theme of Covenant, going back to the first guy who gets infected by the spores when "going to take a piss"...without even taking a piss).

It's not exactly an unknown thing to do. Neither is leaving them. It just depends on the person.

And the circumstances.  If time was tight, the audience would be more forgiving for not going back for the cat.

Why are people here upset about Ripley "going back for the cat" in Alien exactly? She left the cat literally in front of the enterance to the Narcissus after being cut off by the alien...her "going back for him" was taking two steps to the left before abandoning ship.

[Highland]

There's a drinking game in this thread with the words - Shoehorn, Pulse Rifles and Cat.

I'm with Paranoid Android. One works one doesn't. That's my whole beef with the movie, it's not whats happening, it's how it's happening. The same things happened in Alien and Aliens ( Which we are now tearing apart? Great job), it just felt like in a much more plausible way.

Now about these "team"  T-shirts......

[tleilaxu]

Yeah I can't imagine why it would bother anyone.  They didn't have any reason to think they weren't in a secure location.

Same. I get that it's a trope and the audience knows she's in a horror film and know what is coming next but within the context of the film itself, it made sense. They all thought they were safe at this point.

In the context of the film itself, the Covenant crew felt safe because:
1. They followed a complete stranger after being attacked by a hostile alien lifeform.
2. Into a giant alien city which had no doors.
3. Said giant alien city was found to be filled with corpses.
4. After being asked if the place is safe, the suspicious stranger told them that it was.

Would you feel safe if a stranger took you hiding in a doorless alien graveyard?

Since people brought up Ripley dosing off in Aliens as a comparison, Ripley dosed off when:
1. She and the rest of the marines got the complete schematics of the complex.
2. Used said schematics to come up with a plan, which included welding off and barricading key doors that blocked entrance to the complex.
3. Assumed the aliens would get in anyway, so they set up sentry turrets at key junctions.
4. Assumed the sentrys won't be enough, so they had Hudson and Vasquez patrolling the corridors with motion trackers.

Only then did Ripley fall saleep, after Hicks telling her to do so and in a room monitored by video cameras.

It is pretty clear why people got annoyed by Rosenthal's tropey "let me wander off by myself so that the script could kill me off" approach. It made no sense other than the script wanting her dead (which is a recurring theme of Covenant, going back to the first guy who gets infected by the spores when "going to take a piss"...without even taking a piss).

It's not exactly an unknown thing to do. Neither is leaving them. It just depends on the person.

And the circumstances.  If time was tight, the audience would be more forgiving for not going back for the cat.

Why are people here upset about Ripley "going back for the cat" in Alien exactly? She left the cat literally in front of the enterance to the Narcissus after being cut off by the alien...her "going back for him" was taking two steps to the left before abandoning ship.

You're ignoring that David literally saved them from the Neomorphs with the flare gun because it doesn't suit your argument.

[Hemi]

Did he save them or his Neomorphs.

[Jonesy1974]

Yeah I can't imagine why it would bother anyone.  They didn't have any reason to think they weren't in a secure location.

Same. I get that it's a trope and the audience knows she's in a horror film and know what is coming next but within the context of the film itself, it made sense. They all thought they were safe at this point.

In the context of the film itself, the Covenant crew felt safe because:
1. They followed a complete stranger after being attacked by a hostile alien lifeform.
2. Into a giant alien city which had no doors.
3. Said giant alien city was found to be filled with corpses.
4. After being asked if the place is safe, the suspicious stranger told them that it was.

Would you feel safe if a stranger took you hiding in a doorless alien graveyard?

Since people brought up Ripley dosing off in Aliens as a comparison, Ripley dosed off when:
1. She and the rest of the marines got the complete schematics of the complex.
2. Used said schematics to come up with a plan, which included welding off and barricading key doors that blocked entrance to the complex.
3. Assumed the aliens would get in anyway, so they set up sentry turrets at key junctions.
4. Assumed the sentrys won't be enough, so they had Hudson and Vasquez patrolling the corridors with motion trackers.

Only then did Ripley fall saleep, after Hicks telling her to do so and in a room monitored by video cameras.

It is pretty clear why people got annoyed by Rosenthal's tropey "let me wander off by myself so that the script could kill me off" approach. It made no sense other than the script wanting her dead (which is a recurring theme of Covenant, going back to the first guy who gets infected by the spores when "going to take a piss"...without even taking a piss).

It's not exactly an unknown thing to do. Neither is leaving them. It just depends on the person.

And the circumstances.  If time was tight, the audience would be more forgiving for not going back for the cat.

Why are people here upset about Ripley "going back for the cat" in Alien exactly? She left the cat literally in front of the enterance to the Narcissus after being cut off by the alien...her "going back for him" was taking two steps to the left before abandoning ship.

I think its maybe more reference to earlier prior to Parker and Lambert's Alien encounter when Ripley wanders around calling out for Jonesy.

They actually use the cat trope 3 times in Alien, nothing but trouble those pesky cats in space lol

[Paranoid Android]

Yeah I can't imagine why it would bother anyone.  They didn't have any reason to think they weren't in a secure location.

Same. I get that it's a trope and the audience knows she's in a horror film and know what is coming next but within the context of the film itself, it made sense. They all thought they were safe at this point.

In the context of the film itself, the Covenant crew felt safe because:
1. They followed a complete stranger after being attacked by a hostile alien lifeform.
2. Into a giant alien city which had no doors.
3. Said giant alien city was found to be filled with corpses.
4. After being asked if the place is safe, the suspicious stranger told them that it was.

Would you feel safe if a stranger took you hiding in a doorless alien graveyard?

Since people brought up Ripley dosing off in Aliens as a comparison, Ripley dosed off when:
1. She and the rest of the marines got the complete schematics of the complex.
2. Used said schematics to come up with a plan, which included welding off and barricading key doors that blocked entrance to the complex.
3. Assumed the aliens would get in anyway, so they set up sentry turrets at key junctions.
4. Assumed the sentrys won't be enough, so they had Hudson and Vasquez patrolling the corridors with motion trackers.

Only then did Ripley fall saleep, after Hicks telling her to do so and in a room monitored by video cameras.

It is pretty clear why people got annoyed by Rosenthal's tropey "let me wander off by myself so that the script could kill me off" approach. It made no sense other than the script wanting her dead (which is a recurring theme of Covenant, going back to the first guy who gets infected by the spores when "going to take a piss"...without even taking a piss).

It's not exactly an unknown thing to do. Neither is leaving them. It just depends on the person.

And the circumstances.  If time was tight, the audience would be more forgiving for not going back for the cat.

Why are people here upset about Ripley "going back for the cat" in Alien exactly? She left the cat literally in front of the enterance to the Narcissus after being cut off by the alien...her "going back for him" was taking two steps to the left before abandoning ship.

You're ignoring that David literally saved them from the Neomorphs with the flare gun because it doesn't suit your argument.

Did he? I was under the impression that the Neomorph ran away after getting hit by rifle fire. When was it established that David "saved" anyone in Covenant? All he did was pop off a flare in a dramatic pose.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume you're correct and David did save their lives with the flares because Neomorphs are scared of lights? I guess?
It still doesn't explain why the crew takes David's word for the giant alien graveyard being safe, especially when seeing, with their own two eyes, that the place doesn't even have doors...The crew does absolutely nothing to establish their safety other than trusting David.