Should the Queen be a part of the Prequel universe?

[TC]

Character flaw or film flaw?

Here's another example that's interesting because it shows how well Cameron understands character writing (at least in Aliens: other films - like Titanic - debatable    ).

Hudson is established as a juvenile coward. He goes over-the-top-nutso with his bragging about the marine's firepower in the APC/dropship when they're about to launch.

But he heroically redeems himself in the Hadley's Hope "Alamo" scene in Operations.

This seems contradictory, but look at how Cameron does it: he uses one character flaw (Hudson has no self-control and is easily carried away when fired up on adrenaline) to overcome another (his cowardice).

The other thing (imo) is that Cameron's instincts as a storyteller told him it was a good idea to break the rules in this case. He felt audiences would like Hudson (despite his juvenile behaviour), and would love to see him go down in a blaze of glory.

He was right.

TC

[Perfect-Organism]

Yeah Cameron wrote the marines like Vietnam army draftees if memory serves.

If I remember correctly, Cameron said while commenting on the marines in Aliens that in hind-sight he misrepresented them as marines.  He admitted that their behavior was somewhat insulting to marine characteristics..

[Deathbearer]

I get that Gorman is inexperienced, but the marines were badly prepared.  No quarantine, no helmets, poor planning.  They don't act like marines, they act like children.  And people are fine with this. 

You can excuse Gorman that maybe WY assigned him to the mission deliberately, but that doesn't excuse the marines behaviour.  These are supposed to be professional soldiers in the future, but they act nothing like it. 

I can excuse the Covenant crew because they just had a Security Team, which means bare minimum of training for any kind of combat or hostile situation.

The marines' behavior is a stereotype, I'll admit that. I've met marines who love to jack off about how cool they are for being marines, so maybe it's not unprecedented.

However, I can see why they didn't take the situation seriously because as far as anyone knew all that was wrong was a f**ked up beacon. Of course they didn't believe Ripley's story about chest-bursting space monsters, who would?

Quarantine for what? Downed comms?

They had helmets, so I'm not sure what you mean.

They weren't trained for fighting Xenomorphs and when they collapsed it made sense.

[SM]

Hicks believed her.

[Scorpio]

However, I can see why they didn't take the situation seriously because as far as anyone knew all that was wrong was a f**ked up beacon. Of course they didn't believe Ripley's story about chest-bursting space monsters, who would?

Whether they believe or not doesn't matter.  They had the intel, so they should have been better prepared. 

[Highland]

However, I can see why they didn't take the situation seriously because as far as anyone knew all that was wrong was a f**ked up beacon. Of course they didn't believe Ripley's story about chest-bursting space monsters, who would?

Whether they believe or not doesn't matter.  They had the intel, so they should have been better prepared. 

They didn't know what the creature was and they thought the hostages were possibly alive. They could have been better prepared for the reactor though

[ralfy]

Sure, why not? It's already been introduced in Aliens.

[Corporal Hicks]

However, I can see why they didn't take the situation seriously because as far as anyone knew all that was wrong was a f**ked up beacon. Of course they didn't believe Ripley's story about chest-bursting space monsters, who would?

Whether they believe or not doesn't matter.  They had the intel, so they should have been better prepared.

The difference also being that by-and-large that unpreparedness wasn't used to propel the story forward. Over-confidence, yes, but it wasn't a lack of helmets leading to them being infected or that they didn't have good enough weaponry or whatever.

[ChrisPachi]

They were also on what was by that time a human colony. They weren't knowingly bumbling into alien environment.

[TC]

OK, I feel the need to make a contribution to this thread that's back on topic... 

It would be interesting, but not vital, for Scott to introduce an Alien Queen into the next story. Interesting, only because I think he would have some unique spin on the concept, not because I want to see the entire franchise linked up, storywise.

As for the egg-morphing vs Queen issue: it's been pointed out that a bit of elaboration of the life cycle can make an allowance for both. That suits me fine but if Scott wants to ignore the Queen idea entirely as though Cameron's Aliens story will never exist, that's OK with me too. That's because I've always seen the films in the franchise as being "alternate universe" contributions from each director anyway.

For the same reason, I don't care if "Covenant 2" (or whatever it's called) paves the way for the Alien 1979 movie to take place. The '79 film will always exist in my mind as its own unique and self-contained movie. It works beautifully that way (especially the special cut with the alien-nest scene restored), and the prequels already have a very different style than the one established in the Scott/O'Bannon/Shusett/Giger original. (I guess that's only to be expected given the decades of directing Scott did in the intervening years, and so too, his development as an artist,)

It's been said countless times before, but Alien 1979 is modelled on an unpretentious B-movie paradigm (and proudly so, might I add); Prometheus and Covenant are not. Collectively, to me, they will never feel like chapters in the same book. Not like Star Wars films, or Harry Potter films, Hunger Games, etc.

TC

[Perfect-Organism]

Yeah,.... no.

I think if Scott's next Alien instalment blatantly disregards Alien or fails to connect with it, that will be the death knell of the series.

[Gash]

Yeah,.... no.

I think if Scott's next Alien instalment blatantly disregards Alien or fails to connect with it, that will be the death knell of the series.

Perhaps, but as long as it gets made, if it ends there, no problem.

[reecebomb]

I for one hope hope that the Covenant sequel strays further away from the original series, so they'd end up be two different universes (David, Alien), they really don't gel as it is.  No queen in the prequels please!

Yeah,.... no.

I think if Scott's next Alien instalment blatantly disregards Alien or fails to connect with it, that will be the death knell of the series.

Death knell for the prequels perhaps yes, a new door for the Alien franchise.

[Scorpio]

They didn't know what the creature was

They were briefed by Ripley.

The difference also being that by-and-large that unpreparedness wasn't used to propel the story forward. Over-confidence, yes, but it wasn't a lack of helmets leading to them being infected or that they didn't have good enough weaponry or whatever.

Their unpreparedness caused the situation in the first place.  Leaving the dropship unsecured and unguarded.  Using infra-red when they didn't even know if they could see them in infra-red.  Not bringing the right weapons or equipment (Ripley told them about the acid blood, and they did nothing).  Sealing everything else but not bothering to check the ceiling.  The list goes on.

They were also on what was by that time a human colony. They weren't knowingly bumbling into alien environment.

It's an alien life form.  They could introduce disease.

[Corporal Hicks]

Their unpreparedness caused the situation in the first place.  Leaving the dropship unsecured and unguarded.  Using infra-red when they didn't even know if they could see them in infra-red.  Not bringing the right weapons or equipment (Ripley told them about the acid blood, and they did nothing).  Sealing everything else but not bothering to check the ceiling.  The list goes on.

The securing of the dropship I'll grant you and wasn't something I'd particularly ever thought about. But then you do have Spunkmeyer knocking around somewhere and Ferro is in the cock-pit and we know the Aliens are stealthy at times. I do disagree with them not bringing the right weaponry or equipment.

Every single weapon we see them use has some effect (the Veep maybe not) and they did bring detection gear. It's not their fault the Alien didn't show up on infared, but they brought some. The motion tracker obviously works too.

In regards to the acid blood...not sure there's anything demonstrated in any of the Alien films that is resistant to it. They're still wearing armour and taking that extra protective step. The ceiling...yeah, could give you that one too but it is justified within the film and feels more like a stretch to find flaws.