[SPOILERS] So Covenant confirms that AvP and AvPR are not canon films.

[Xenomrph]

But Ridley's musings, inconsistent as they may be, are often more intetesting.

I believe we will have to agree to disagree on that one.

[Voodoo Magic]

There's wiggle room for anything. But until it wiggles out and isn't, it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjEF8QCLyW0

The counter to this is the well-worn adage, "Ridley Scott says a lot of things."

The EU says a lot of things too 

[Kurai]

David is an unreliable source for information and thus his having created the Xenomorphs is far from certain.
It really doesn't take much to reconcile the two series, if that's what one would want to do, so I'm often confused why folks will often say "the movies are incapable of being in the same universe without time travel shenanigans." Or other such widely offset ideas.

Anyhow, David never actually states that he made the ovomorphs. He spoke of experimenting on the parasites that emerged after he goo-bombed the city.

He lied about wiping out all non-botanical life on the planet (at least not immediately. After the egg sac fungi developed, they probably disrupted the ecosystem), and the evidence for it is inside his lab.
There are numerous normal insects within his lab and the skinned Engineer, as well as the failed Neomorph embryos, is evidence that there were still Engineers physically uncompromised after the attack to be used as host bodies.

There's too much wrong with what David says, he's clearly unhinged and is shown to be more than capable of lying.
"When one note is off, it eventually destroys the whole symphony, David."

There's also the fact that the Xenomorphs are very different to the ones from movies later in the timeline, right down to ovomorphs.
This can be handwaved by calling it a "Protomorph", but it's something that doesn't work for me personally.
My personal theory is that David used a mix of the Black Goo, Engineer hosts, Shaw's DNA and traditional Xenomorph ovomorphs the Engineers had and created a sort of hybrid between the Neomorph and the traditional Xenomorph.

Either way, whether he created them or not, the available evidence isn't conclusive.
There's nothing that directly contradicts the AvP movies and there's nothing that directly supports them either.
So, as of this time, it's totally up to preference.

[Drukathi]

AvP films should not (and are not) be part of the canon, regardless of the actions of David. Crossovers generally should not be part of lore of the original (base) Universes.

[Kurai]

AvP films should not (and are not) be part of the canon, regardless of the actions of David. Crossovers generally should not be part of lore of the original (base) Universes.

Like I said:

So, as of this time, it's totally up to preference.

But I must say that I don't actually understand the hatred of crossovers.
One can talk about the quality of the AvP movies we have, but I don't see how a crossover inherently and fundamentally detracts from either side's source.
I grew up on comics, so maybe I just have a nostalgic bias on the subject, but I've always found that they tend to open up more doors than they shut.

Why do you feel the way you do? In regards to your username, how do you feel about crossovers between mediums? What if the Drukathi are explored in a future sequel, despite having origins in the novels?
All the lines are too blurry for me, I think quality should be paramount.

[Drukathi]

But I must say that I don't actually understand the hatred of crossovers.

I like crossovers. I like AvP too - pc games, F&S, L&D, Rage Wars. I dream that in addition to the anthologies Aliens: Bug Hund and Predator: If it Bleeds - an AvP anthology will be written. But AvP films are...

One can talk about the quality of the AvP movies

The fundamental question of quality began with Alien 3. Well, the main problem with AvP films (excluding poor quality) is that they are here - on Earth these days. This is the setting of the Predator, not the Alien. This creates an uncomfortable feeling that the Alien is standing below the Predator.

Why do you feel the way you do? In regards to your username, how do you feel about crossovers between mediums?

As I said, let everything remain on its franchises. Alien canon for Alien. Predator for Predator. AvP for AvP. But AvP doesn't even have a canon. It's just a sandbox. Not an universe.

I do not think that types of media can be called a crossover, this applies to universes, franchises, and not to media. Different types of media are a good way, but A for A, P for P, AvP for AvP.

What if the Drukathi are explored in a future sequel, despite having origins in the novels?

To place a monster from one universe to another - why not? The keyword is "monster". The mythology, lore and story of Rage Wars must be cut off. Rage Wars should not set rules for the Alien universe. But the Alien universe should not affect Rage Wars. Is it just a monster, like, well, an actor? But the works are independent.

And this is the mistake AvP films made - they tried to influence the universes of Alien and Predator. Set rules for them. To become for them a prequel, a sequel, a common link, knowledge, lore, event... They should never have ambitions to be a prequel to the Alien or a sequel to the Predator.

But whatever, if Drukati will live in dirty caves and play flute - I myself will go to live in a cave. Just to forget it. 

I think quality should be paramount.

This is the root of all problems since Alien 3. But my opinion is that all three franchises should have an independent canon.

[Kurai]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with everything you said there.

I still think crossovers can work within the core canon of each franchise, it just needs to be handled correctly and there lies the rub.
I think it's very easy to do an AvP movie off Earth right, even on a lower budget. Ryushi, for example, could have been so easily adapted and filmed in America. There was really very little reason to set it on Earth in the first place, and it's frustrating that they took that path.
What I'd really love though, is a Predator movie set on an Alien Universe colony world in the throes of a violent uprising that has the main characters be USCM, but not include Xenomorphs or any mention of them. Expand the universe, create some new native species! Avp, The Predator, the Alien prequels... They all have the same damn flaw: they want to make the universe smaller rather than expand it.

It's what frustrates me to the core about the idea that David made the Xenomorphs. In my opinion, it is unnecessary and detracts, rather than expands. It feels like a desperate attempt to add walls that prevent narrative expansion. If David did create the Xenomorphs, they're shackled to him.

[Xenomrph]

What I'd really love though, is a Predator movie set on an Alien Universe colony world in the throes of a violent uprising that has the main characters be USCM, but not include Xenomorphs or any mention of them.

I like this idea quite a bit.

[SM]

There's also the fact that the Xenomorphs are very different to the ones from movies later in the timeline, right down to ovomorphs.

I've never found this argument to have any merit whatsoever.  It looks very the same as the one in the first film.  The ones in Aliens and Alien 3 look more different than the one in Covenant, but no one questions their authenticity.

[Kradan]

There's also the fact that the Xenomorphs are very different to the ones from movies later in the timeline, right down to ovomorphs.

I've never found this argument to have any merit whatsoever.  It looks very the same as the one in the first film.  The ones in Aliens and Alien 3 look more different than the one in Covenant, but no one questions their authenticity.

I'm not sure about that

[SiL]

Anyhow, David never actually states that he made the ovomorphs. He spoke of experimenting on the parasites that emerged after he goo-bombed the city.

Besides his in-progress eggs in the table, he announces the eggs as the fruits of his labour.

  The ones in Aliens and Alien 3 look more different than the one in Covenant, but no one questions their authenticity.

I'm not sure about that

I also disagree with SM (although maybe more on the "it looks very the same as the original" comment) but the point still stands that the designs are noticeably different every film and as such it's a weak argument.

[SM]

"Very the same" was just a play on words from the post I was responding to, but it's the closest design to Giger's original and didn't have the very obvious differences of no dome and no back tubes.

[SiL]

Sorry, I missed that about the word play.

I'd argue the complete lack of biomechanical detailing is just as striking as the dome or tubes, but ultimately we agree; all the films use notably different designs, it's not really indicative of anything.

Hell, the only times the designs weren't radically different was between AR and AvP. Are they the only legitimate Aliens? Enquiring minds need to know.

[SM]

The other odd argument I hear is the state of the Oram chestburster.  Essentially being a mini-adult rather than a snake like creature.  In Aliens the bursters had fully formed arms, in Alien 3 it was the same sort of deal as Oram (mini version of the adult), the Queen they took from Ripley had no crest or arms, and Purvis' burster didn't even seem to have the stumps that Kanes had.

[Kurai]

I've never found this argument to have any merit whatsoever.  It looks very the same as the one in the first film.  The ones in Aliens and Alien 3 look more different than the one in Covenant, but no one questions their authenticity.

I can't see it, the ones in Aliens and Alien 3 look very similar to the original, and Alien 3 has the excuse of being for a Royal Facehugger in any case.
As for the "very the same", I'm not sure I understand the play on words, is it because I forgot the "the" before "ovomorphs"? 

Besides his in-progress eggs in the table, he announces the eggs as the fruits of his labour.

You're quite right, my mistake. Just rewatched the scene now and I'm surprised I didn't notice them.

Still, it can still fit with:

My personal theory is that David used a mix of the Black Goo, Engineer hosts, Shaw's DNA and traditional Xenomorph ovomorphs the Engineers had and created a sort of hybrid between the Neomorph and the traditional Xenomorph.

Though now I think it makes more sense for it to have been Engineer stored Facehugger embryos like David regurgitated near the end, rather than Ovomorphs.

The other odd argument I hear is the state of the Oram chestburster.  Essentially being a mini-adult rather than a snake like creature.  In Aliens the bursters had fully formed arms, in Alien 3 it was the same sort of deal as Oram (mini version of the adult), the Queen they took from Ripley had no crest or arms, and Purvis' burster didn't even seem to have the stumps that Kanes had.

I actually agree here. Like you said, there's precedence for it.
I just don't like it because it looks ridiculous to me. 
It was the "jumping the shark" moment of the movie for me that kind of pulled me out of my suspension of disbelief. The scene seemed more out of a parody.