This is why Prometheus is a great Sci-Fi film

[SM]

In what way?

[bb-15]

How would the deleted scenes improve it?

stuff like the cloaked Engineers with the one that sacrifice at the prologue or the Engineer speaking after waking up would improve the rhythm/pace of the movie and help fix what some wrongly call "plot holes"

Building on adding the 'cloaked Engineers' deleted scene to a cut, Ridley said that with the edit he wanted to make the Engineers more mysterious.
Some viewers disagree with Ridley. They prefer the deleted material about the Engineers be put into a cut. Such as;
- The cloaked Engineers sequence;
- The response by the Engineer to Weyland (after Weyland's speech to the Engineer).
- The Engineer taking his time examining the Lifeboat, and the extended sequence of Shaw fighting the Engineer.

Adding material to "Prometheus" doesn't matter to me but I understand the argument by some who want more about the Engineers in the film.

[Russ840]

I honestly believe, with a good amount of editing, te is a great movie in Prometheus. I watched it again last night. Still annoys me lol

[bb-15]

I honestly believe, with a good amount of editing, te is a great movie in Prometheus. I watched it again last night. Still annoys me lol

A fan edit which has no reshoots is very limited.
- Take one "Prometheus" fan edit which puts the Weyland TED talk at the beginning of the film.
That choice misses the point of the core of the movie.
A lot of words is not going to answer the big issues about creation in the film and change "Prometheus" into a simple story.

Editing cannot drastically change the genre of a movie.
No edit can change a Star Wars film into "2001" or make "2001" become a Star Wars adventure.

Ridley and his team had a vision with "Prometheus".
It's a blend of "2001", "Jurassic Park", "Blade Runner" and a mystery put into the Alien universe.
- An editor would first imo need to accept what "Prometheus" is in terms of its style and story themes.
Then changes consistent with the genres in "Prometheus" could be made which support the goals of what Ridley was trying to do. 
- But no edit can successfully make "Prometheus" into something which it is not.
- "Prometheus" is its own thing in the Alien franchise.



PS. I have no problem with anyone who is annoyed by this movie. It's personal taste.

[Predaker]

I honestly believe, with a good amount of editing, te is a great movie in Prometheus. I watched it again last night. Still annoys me lol

A fan edit which has no reshoots is very limited.
- Take one "Prometheus" fan edit which puts the Weyland TED talk at the beginning of the film.
That choice misses the point of the core of the movie.
A lot of words is not going to answer the big issues about creation in the film and change "Prometheus" into a simple story.

Editing cannot drastically change the genre of a movie.
No edit can change a Star Wars film into "2001" or make "2001" become a Star Wars adventure.

Ridley and his team had a vision with "Prometheus".
It's a blend of "2001", "Jurassic Park", "Blade Runner" and a mystery put into the Alien universe.
- An editor would first imo need to accept what "Prometheus" is in terms of its style and story themes.
Then changes consistent with the genres in "Prometheus" could be made which support the goals of what Ridley was trying to do. 
- But no edit can successfully make "Prometheus" into something which it is not.
- "Prometheus" is its own thing in the Alien franchise.



PS. I have no problem with anyone who is annoyed by this movie. It's personal taste.

[Scorpio]

David is really what made Prometheus.  He brought that undercurrent of dark humour.  Especially that line; "It's not exactly a traditional fetus", and the way it was played by Michael Fassbender.  Brilliant.

[Russ840]

How would the deleted scenes improve it?

stuff like the cloaked Engineers with the one that sacrifice at the prologue or the Engineer speaking after waking up would improve the rhythm/pace of the movie and help fix what some wrongly call "plot holes"

Building on adding the 'cloaked Engineers' deleted scene to a cut, Ridley said that with the edit he wanted to make the Engineers more mysterious.
Some viewers disagree with Ridley. They prefer the deleted material about the Engineers be put into a cut. Such as;
- The cloaked Engineers sequence;
- The response by the Engineer to Weyland (after Weyland's speech to the Engineer).
- The Engineer taking his time examining the Lifeboat, and the extended sequence of Shaw fighting the Engineer.

Adding material to "Prometheus" doesn't matter to me but I understand the argument by some who want more about the Engineers in the film.

I disagree with this BB. With some clever cutting and reorganisation, the film would flow better. Also, some of the bits that annoy people can been altered. Take the head exploding scene. Trim it to remove the actual exploding piece and the scene is better. I personally would start the film from the scene where the prometheus first appears. It would have nicely paralleled Alien this way. I would then move to the scenes of David strolling around the ship, but removed the dream watching bits. This would require later scenes, like where david comments about having seen her dreams, being altered/removed. There is lots i would personally change and i am confident the film would be better for it. I think others would agree.   

[bb-15]

How would the deleted scenes improve it?

stuff like the cloaked Engineers with the one that sacrifice at the prologue or the Engineer speaking after waking up would improve the rhythm/pace of the movie and help fix what some wrongly call "plot holes"

Building on adding the 'cloaked Engineers' deleted scene to a cut, Ridley said that with the edit he wanted to make the Engineers more mysterious.
Some viewers disagree with Ridley. They prefer the deleted material about the Engineers be put into a cut. Such as;
- The cloaked Engineers sequence;
- The response by the Engineer to Weyland (after Weyland's speech to the Engineer).
- The Engineer taking his time examining the Lifeboat, and the extended sequence of Shaw fighting the Engineer.

Adding material to "Prometheus" doesn't matter to me but I understand the argument by some who want more about the Engineers in the film.

I disagree with this BB.

I actually agree with some of the things you've written up to a point. 

With some clever cutting and reorganisation, the film would flow better. Also, some of the bits that annoy people can been altered.

Editing can change the 'flow' of a movie.
Whether the new flow is better or not comes down to personal taste.
- For instance, here is a YouTube channel dedicated to fan edits for the Star Wars prequels.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZENHLYZmLo

Edits which shorten a film can speed up its flow. But importantly some people have posted to this YT channel that they prefer the full length prequel films.
Again imo, it's personal taste.

Take the head exploding scene. Trim it to remove the actual exploding piece and the scene is better.

That's not an example of pace / flow since the explosion takes only a few seconds. Imo that's an annoyance issue.
- Here is one of mine. I don't like Fifield howling in the tunnel once he has released the PUPs. Imo that doesn't fit his character being stressed once he entered the tunnels (until he gets stoned).
- A simple edit can take out short moments like that including when the head explodes.
- But is editing that out better?
It depends on the person. Someone may like howling Fifield.
And to me the exploding head is one of the clues that tells the viewer something about what happened to that Engineer.
- What's better or not with an edit again comes down to personal taste.

I personally would start the film from the scene where the prometheus first appears. It would have nicely paralleled Alien this way.
I would then move to the scenes of David strolling around the ship, but removed the dream watching bits.

More would need to be taken out before the beginning of "Prometheus" mirrors the pace of the start of "Alien".
Yes, the credits can appear with the first appearance of the ship in space but after that, the sequence with David's learning and his investigations would need to be cut out to match "Alien's" pace.
David could shoot his basket, there could be a few shots of the ship's interior, and then the billiard table shot, with the balls moving, would be next showing that the ship was slowing down and then the crew wakes up.

What have we got? The start of "Prometheus" becomes a pale imitation of "Alien".
- "Alien" has ominous music throughout its beginning. This sets up horror science fiction.
- The ship in space in "Prometheus" has no music. And David by himself has mostly no continuous music soundtrack.
That is not the building of tension as with horror science fiction. Instead this remnant of "Prometheus" remains like art film "2001" & mystery science fiction.
- Someone could try to go to the trouble of remixing the soundtrack of "Prometheus" with new sinister music but it would likely be technically flawed.
Only the best fan editors could try to do this and where would they get the music from?
- The only person who could properly do a replacement of the soundtrack imo is Ridley Scott with studio money and that's not going to happen. 

And that's only about the beginning. To make "Prometheus" into something like the horror SF of "Alien" would require a major reshoot which again is not going to happen.

This would require later scenes, like where david comments about having seen her dreams, being altered/removed.

Without David's pervert spying on Shaw in the beginning there is no way to replace it later because Shaw doesn't go back into stasis. So, it's gone.
Now there's the issue of what David is doing later talking with someone in a stasis pod (who turns out to be Weyland).

Taking out large chunks of information removes meaning from "Prometheus" and makes it harder to understand an already vague film.
- Take out the recombining of DNA from the sacrificial Engineer and an illustration of a main idea from the film is gone;
- The archological bit with Shaw and Holloway (patterned after a similar sequence in "Jurassic Park") shows what their research was about.
- David's creepy behavior with him peeping into Shaw's dream is important in seeing a hostile side to David. It helps in understanding how he could decide to turn against Holloway later. 

There is lots i would personally change and i am confident the film would be better for it. I think others would agree.

You can certainly be confident of what would please you.
As for others Board critics of "Prometheus" here and on other websites, from my experience I expect their preferences would vary depending on individual personal taste.

In my debates about this movie and the reasons why some people can't stand it varies.
Many want more information put into the film, not less. For instance some believe that several deleted scenes should be in an edit.
- There is no one size fits all from the harsh critic side of the "Prometheus" debate. 

[Russ840]

BB.  Yeah,  i was being vague and brief in what i would do. I did mention annoyance in my post so that was intended to cover the exploding head.  I get that its all about an opinion.

For me, this is how i see the movie.

1. Amazing to look at.  Just beautiful. For me, one of the best looking films there is.

2. Grand, interesting ideas.

3. Badly executed.

I have never found myself so frustrated by a movie before. I find it to be shoddy, for want of a better word and i would blame that on the changes to the movie throughout pre-production.  Thats how i see it anyway.

I won't post here telling you that you are in anyway wrong in your posts, they are you opinions.

I really think that tighter movie is there and just needs a good edit.

I would love for Ridley to release a 'Special Edition' of Prometheus. I would love to see the deleted scene of the Engineer, in the life boat playing cat and mouse with Shaw, edited back in.  The more R rated Med pod scene. The end scene with the F bomb.  The Engineer speaking.

I couldn't tell you which Feifield scene i prefer so don't care which is there.

A bit of trimming and editing.  I mean, come on, why did Peter Weyland have to pretend to be dead. A few changes to his scenes. Trims if you will, so there is no mention of his death prior to the mission. 

Rework the scenes of Shaw after the operation and the hanger attack.  They really don't work well, being spliced together, for me.

I have not the time to list everything I'd change.

There are some things that cant be avoided without damaging the movie, some of the things that most think stupid. That's fine. No film is perfect.

Out of interest BB. Can you give me a quick run down of your opinions of the other 4 movies from the series?  Would you mind?

[Salt The Fries]

In what way?

Well, the least I can think of, is that Millburn wouldn't have been made out to be such a doofus.

[bb-15]

Out of interest BB. Can you give me a quick run down of your opinions of the other 4 movies from the series?  Would you mind?

No problem. My view of the Alien movies with "Prometheus" added in.

* "Alien"; I rank this #10 on my all time science fiction movie list.
A1 is the best SF horror film ever made imo. (Only the 1982 "The Thing" rivals it imo which I rank at #12.)
A1 is an excellent blend of ominous mood and tense acting.

* "Aliens";  I rank this #17 on my all time science fiction movie list.
A2 is a top notch action SF movie. I'd only put "The Matrix" (#8), "Total Recall" (#11) and "Terminator 2" (#16) above it.
- Cameron had long sequences of action in "Aliens" (creating the modern action style). And Sigourney and Carrie Henn play effective characters. 

* After these triumphs, the Alien franchise ran into some problems imo.
1. Sigourney got script control of the later Alien films. She was not interested in expanding the Alien universe or developing longterm relationships between Ripley and other characters. Future films had to only focus on her character.
2. The Fox studio meddled in the later films but imo not in a good way. It was filmmaking by committee.

* "Alien 3"; I know several people think this is an excellent movie and some even think it's the best Alien film. Imo "development hell" is an apt description of the way it was put together.
David Fincher, an excellent director, was put in an impossible situation.
- As filming began much of the budget was already spent and the script wasn't finished. There were disputes over Giger's designs.
- Most importantly Fincher was not given control of the movie. He is so pissed off about A3 that he has disowned it. He has refused to do a director's cut of the film.
As a result, A2 theatrical or the Assembly Cut lacks the vision of a director who is put in charge compared with A1 and A2.
A3 is still interesting to watch.

* "Alien Resurrection"; this film had the talented Joss Whedon do the script but it had numerous rewites. Sigourney was now a producer of the film giving her even more control.
Jeunet became the director and he changed the ending of the script multiple times. 
- Whedon believes the production did a poor job in casting, with designs and with the musical score.
- A4 has its good moments but it is not in the same class as Scott's outstanding "Alien".

* As for "Prometheus"; finally Sigourney was not in charge.
This allowed Scott to open up the franchise to the background of the Space Jockeys/Engineers, and explore their technology / culture.
- Also, Scott did not repeat the genre/styles of "Alien" and "Aliens" adding variety to the series.
"Prometheus" is a combination of art film SF ("2001"/"Blade Runner"), adventure SF ("Jurassic Park") and mystery SF (with some Sherlock Holmes moments).
I rank it #19 on my all time science fiction movie list.

I would love for Ridley to release a 'Special Edition' of Prometheus. I would love to see the deleted scene of the Engineer, in the life boat playing cat and mouse with Shaw, edited back in.  The more R rated Med pod scene. The end scene with the F bomb.  The Engineer speaking.

Ridley may do that someday.

why did Peter Weyland have to pretend to be dead.

This follows a famous mystery trope, the supposedly dead antagonist who is actually controlling things from behind the scenes.

The purpose of Weyland pretending to be dead is to give a reason for why the mission fails.
- In "Alien" the reason things go very wrong is because of sabotage by Ash.
Ash knows about the "creature". After Kane is infected, Ash allows Kane to eat with the crew with a giant, fast growing parasite inside of him.
Ash is pleased when the xenomorph gets loose. Ash doesn't care about getting the creature back to the Weyland/Yutani weapons labs on earth. Ash revels in the creature being free and killing/transforming the crew. 

- In "Prometheus" the antagonist concept is similar. Weyland, like Ash is sabotaging the mission. Weyland's motive is different from Ash.
Weyland is selfish and wants to live forever. So, Weyland has David sabotage things to try to quickly find a cure for death.
- Weyland is hiding out in a stasis pod to stay alive since he is on the edge of death.
To sabotage the mission he has to keep things secret.
Only at the end once an alive Engineer is found, does Weyland reveal himself and take over the mission.
At that point the bodyguards have Shaw under Weyland's control.
It is also revealed that much of the crew have been Weyland's servants which includes David.
(The pilots and the captain are just company employees.) 

* This is Ridley Scott doing a role reversal story idea which he also did in "Blade Runner".
- In BR the escaped replicants are at first evil killers.
By the end, the escaped replicants are not evil. Roy and the escaped replicants are freedom fighters.
They are slaves in a system led by the Tyrell Corporation which is evil.

- "Prometheus" has this kind of drastic role reversal.
At first Weyland in the hologram pretends that this is a scientific mission and that Shaw / Holloway are in charge. He is acting like a benevolent, generous figure.
- By the end Weyland's words in his hologram speech turn out to be a complete lie. 
The entire mission and the $trillion is just about Weyland getting a cure for death.
Weyland doesn't care about anything else including the life of much of his crew.
David has been his pawn. Vickers has been under Weyland's control.
The entire mission is now being led with an iron hand by a desperate, irrational old man.

[SM]

In what way?

Well, the least I can think of, is that Millburn wouldn't have been made out to be such a doofus.

I dunno.  He seemed a like a doofus either way.  Great that he's a biologist who has encountered new life forms - but put a bit of distance between you and that nasty looking snake thing.

And why even hang out in that room?  Would've been simpler to have Janek guide them to an exit so they can wait out the storm.

[BishopShouldGo]

I don't think there's a more gruesome version of the med pod scene. If anything, that version in the film IS the gruesome version, but they had a bloodless version ready. If they used that version the movie could have been PG-13.

[bb-15]

In what way?

Well, the least I can think of, is that Millburn wouldn't have been made out to be such a doofus.

I'll add my 2 cents about this which will be wordy since I'm a big fan of different kinds of science fiction films (including complex ones like "2001") and also have followed the NASA program from our world for a long time.

* "Prometheus" takes place in a time where up to that point, no complex alien life has yet been found.
No alien monsters have been seen yet.
- It is like NASA in our world where there are no weapons taken on NASA missions whether with human crews or with robot exploration.

- This no history of dangerous space aliens explains the casual attitude Janek had until after the storm.
No one had been killed by aliens in history yet.
There was no danger as far as he could see except for the storm and everyone was safe from that.
(David knew more but he wasn't telling Janek about the danger or Weyland's plans to sabotage the mission such as by poisoning Holloway.)

- The base seemed to have been abandoned for about 2000 years.
Shaw and Holloway had been to ancient sites on earth and those were not a danger in their minds.

* Milburn, the biologist, stated his complete support for the Darwin view of evolution, which proposes natural evolution that does not involve genetic engineering by space aliens.
Imo when Milburn saw the snake, he thought it was native to the planet and had naturally evolved.
In the Blu-Ray Scott and the writers say that Milburn is an expert about less advanced life (like a snake).

- Milburn believed he could handle the snake with his equipment. The idea that the suit would keep a person safe came from the Spaihts draft script. Spaihts spoke about this in the writer's Blu-ray commentary that the suit was supposed to provide protection. 

- For some it might have helped to have Milburn say something about all of this. For instance;
Milburn to Fifield: "It's OK, I know how to handle dangerous snakes and this suit should protect me.

While he doesn't say that, I accept that from Milburn's POV, he believed that he was not in danger.

* Importantly, once the body of Milburn was found by the crew, then the attitude of Janek changed drastically.
After this, Janek and Shaw were very tuned into the potential danger from that base which led to their actions at the end of the movie.



PS. I'll add that there are some common science fiction cliches included in "Prometheus" (as well in the Alien franchise) which come up in discussions about the crew in the caves including with Milburn.
- For instance space explorers in big budget SF movies/TV hardly ever get sick from alien viruses. The trope is that people can take helmets off on alien worlds with no problem as long as there is enough oxygen to breathe.
- Another common big budget SF film/TV trope is that space explorers do not worry about contaminating alien planets with the crew's bacteria/viruses.
With the Alien franchise this is especially true where the terraforming of other planets is common and terraforming by its very nature is about contamination. 

[SM]

I don't think there's a more gruesome version of the med pod scene. If anything, that version in the film IS the gruesome version, but they had a bloodless version ready. If they used that version the movie could have been PG-13.

Yep.  They might be able to make a version that lingered longer on blood and gore, but the nasty version is in the film and the tamer version was shot but unused.

I don't think there's a more gruesome version of the med pod scene. If anything, that version in the film IS the gruesome version, but they had a bloodless version ready. If they used that version the movie could have been PG-13.

That'd telegraph the fact he was about to die even more.