POLL: Should Blomkamp's ALIEN film retcon the series?

Started by MrSpaceJockey, Feb 19, 2015, 10:18:17 PM

Should Blomkamp's ALIEN film eliminate ALIEN 3 and ALIEN Resurrection from the canon?

Strong Yes
Indifferent, but inclined to say Yes
Indifferent, but inclined to say No
Strong No
Whatever happens happens.
Author
POLL: Should Blomkamp's ALIEN film retcon the series? (Read 21,387 times)

Master

Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 05:47:12 PM
AvP is sheer stupidity, it's not part of the series and it will never be.
Opinion not fact.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 23, 2015, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 05:47:12 PM
AvP is sheer stupidity, it's not part of the series and it will never be.

Like Master said, different series..

From how I see things... possibly a different continuity. Possibly a different universe. Of course that's where Master and I disagree.

As always.

Magegg

Quote from: Master on Feb 23, 2015, 06:02:33 PMOpinion not fact.
Fox has never stated they're part of the Alien continuity, xenos don't exist in the Predator universe and viceversa, so yes, it's just a stupid crossover movie.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 06:14:22 PM
xenos don't exist in the Predator universe

Predator 2 would suggest otherwise..

AAAAAND.. If you take Antal's word into accountability, and if it counts, then the jaw bone on Berserker's mask is a Xenomorph jaw bone. But that's only if you count Antal's word over Rodriguez's.

Master

Predator 2 begs to differ.

Wayland Industries appear in both AvP and Prometheus, so there you ahve a direct continuity.

Mister Skeezler

While I like Alien3 for many reasons, it would be foolish of FOX to rely on the general audience to have knowledge of Alien3 and Alien Resurrection. They were poorly received, forgotten, and no sequel should have to jump through hoops to fit them in. While they seem completely important to many of the 18k members of "Aliens Vs Predator Galaxy," we're probably not going to all buy several hundred movies tickets each to ensure that Ripley 8's battle against Walmart continues.

The dream sequence definitely seems a bit cheap, but nowhere near as cheap as Alien3's absurd intro-credits main character kill-off. That wasn't beautiful or powerful, it was sloppy. If they need to keep Hicks and Ripley, this is the only way I can see it working.

The "many people" who consider Alien3 a "masterpiece" mean f**k-all when it comes to actually making money off this franchise, and really that's the only way it will survive. If you were financially responsible for this franchise doing well, what would you do?

Magegg

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 23, 2015, 06:20:02 PM
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 06:14:22 PM
xenos don't exist in the Predator universe

Predator 2 would suggest otherwise..
Exo-skeleton...

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Master on Feb 23, 2015, 06:22:20 PMWayland Industries appear in both AvP and Prometheus, so there you ahve a direct continuity.

Except the Weyland Corp of Prometheus seems to contradict the Weyland Industries of AVP. Scott has even said he didn't care that his version disagrees with what we saw in AVP.

Mister Skeezler

I don't care about anything disagreeing with AVP. It took a dump on two franchises...and Antarctica.

Master

Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 06:25:03 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 23, 2015, 06:20:02 PM
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 06:14:22 PM
xenos don't exist in the Predator universe

Predator 2 would suggest otherwise..
Exo-skeleton...

Both actually:



Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 23, 2015, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: Master on Feb 23, 2015, 06:22:20 PMWayland Industries appear in both AvP and Prometheus, so there you ahve a direct continuity.

Except the Weyland Corp of Prometheus seems to contradict the Weyland Industries of AVP. Scott has even said he didn't care that his version disagrees with what we saw in AVP.

And where it is seen in the movie?

Quote from: Mister Skeezler on Feb 23, 2015, 06:30:55 PM
I don't care about anything disagreeing with AVP. It took a dump on two franchises...and Antarctica.

It grew on me in recent years. It`s entertaining medicore film. I like it more then Prometheus.

Magegg

Quote from: Master on Feb 23, 2015, 06:39:49 PM
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 06:25:03 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 23, 2015, 06:20:02 PM
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 06:14:22 PM
xenos don't exist in the Predator universe

Predator 2 would suggest otherwise..
Exo-skeleton...

Both actually:

AvP not canon, yet again. They're just did some extremely botched attempt to council the Aliena and Predator mythologies, it was horrible. Hope those creatures won't touch again in theaters.

Master

Because you said so? That`s strong argument indeed.

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Master on Feb 23, 2015, 06:39:49 PMAnd where it is seen in the movie?

Well, for starters there's the fact Weyland Corp (which has a different name) is set up by a British guy called Peter Weyland, not an American called Charles Weyland.

Magegg

No, because it's a terrible idea to begin with. The movies didn't work because Predators should be fighting humans, Aliens should be fighting humans, not Aliens and Predators fighting each other and some humans thrown in the middle just for the sake.

Alien vs Predator is a concept that might work in video games and comic books, but the cinema versions of both Alien and Predator try to be grittier, self-contained, relatively realistic horror storytelling. As the concept and style they couldn't be more dissimilar: Alien are femenine movies, both in themes and style, Predator is the opposite, extremely masculine.

You cannot throw two alien species at once just for the sake and expect it to hold a candle to better to the two original series. It's no different to terrible productions like Freddy vs Jason or a 12-years old kid saying they should be pitting Batman vs Wolverine or something, and thinking that would do a good movie.


While there is a rather high chance both species could exist in the same universe, if the results are brainless messes like AvP 1 and 2, in matters of style and tone it completely contradicts both series, so it's better not to pit them again and ignore they were once pit together... For God's sake.

Master

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 23, 2015, 06:53:02 PM
Quote from: Master on Feb 23, 2015, 06:39:49 PMAnd where it is seen in the movie?

Well, for starters there's the fact Weyland Corp (which has a different name) is set up by a British guy called Peter Weyland, not an American called Charles Weyland.

I don`t remember it being stated in Prometheus. And if you want to use some website or ted talk as evidence, please don`t.

Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 06:53:53 PM
No, because it's a terrible idea to begin with. The movies didn't work because Predators should be fighting humans, Aliens should be fighting humans, not Aliens and Predators fighting each other and some humans thrown in the middle just for the sake.

Alien vs Predator is a concept that might work in video games and comic books, but the cinema versions of both Alien and Predator try to be grittier, self-contained, relatively realistic horror storytelling. As the concept and style they couldn't be more dissimilar: Alien are femenine movies, both in themes and style, Predator is the opposite, extremely masculine.

You cannot throw two alien species at once just for the sake and expect it to hold a candle to better to the two original series. It's no different to terrible productions like Freddy vs Jason or a 12-years old kid saying they should be pitting Batman vs Wolverine or something, and thinking that would do a good movie.


While there is a rather high chance both species could exist in the same universe, if the results are brainless messes like AvP 1 and 2, in matters of style and tone it completely contradicts both series, so it's better not to pit them again and ignore they were once pit together... For God's sake.

And yet here we are. As I said first film is acceptable second is not. Yet when we are talking about canon, i prefere general consensus. Films are canon rest is not.

Russ

Quote from: Magegg on Feb 23, 2015, 06:53:53 PM
No, because it's a terrible idea to begin with. ... For God's sake.

I'm actually finding it hard to argue with any of that. In a way, it's what Blake Snyder calls "double mumbo jumbo." Single mumbo jumbo is fine - let's say "vampires." We have vampires in our movie. But if those vampires are facing an alien threat - it's double mumbo jumbo and asking too much for the suspension of disbelief.

It's not 100% accurate in this instance, but there are some difficulties when portraying the Yatjua (sp) and the Xenos at the same time. As Mag says, its fine for video games and comics (the latter because you have a bigger window), but films have a lot to do in a short time.

That said - I don't think its impossible at all, but you need the right script and the right director (being discussed on another thread at the moment).

Fans will be disappointed no matter what happens in AvP movie, though - by nature, its going to a partisan issue for fans of xenos and Yatjua (I remember the Strauss boys laughing saying "we had to make a choice and I'm a predator fan (or something)). And if the focus is too much on the human protagonists (which, by the way, it should be I think), then die hard fans (not of the Die Hard movies, smart arses) will be disappointed.

I think you need Marines for an AvP to work, though. That's the ticket - set it in space - pulse rifles and all that. Smart gun vs predator - that sort of stuff that people want to see.

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