"Freezers" How do they work? Pragmatism vs Theory

Started by Spoonman101, Jun 24, 2014, 03:16:17 PM

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"Freezers" How do they work? Pragmatism vs Theory (Read 5,260 times)

Spoonman101

Spoonman101

Starting this thread off keep in mind that all theories are welcomed although will be debated.
Proceeding from a previous thread my topic here will be an elaboration on the science behind cryogenic freezing and whether the concept of it in Alien leans toward fact or fiction. The question is whether hypersleep can actually happen as depicted in the films or is it just a stretch of imagination impossible in reality.

Starting off I like to welcome that the theory of hibernation is actually quite plausible (@openmaw). The North American Wood Frog prepares for winter not by migrating or burrowing but by freezing itself in accordance to the temperature. The frog has a special protein in its body called "nucleating proteins." This causes the water in the frog to freeze to ice and in turn the liver releases glucose in the cells.
However this may not be the same case for a human being seeing as they are engineered differently.
I have yet to find if the frog still ages in the process...

Cryogenic practice happens today with freezing a legally pronounced corpse in hopes that it can be resurrected in the future.
Cryonics works only when a subject is pronounced legally dead. The reason is that being totally dead means that the body (cells to organs) is no longer intact and can be brought back where as legally dead means that your heart has stopped beating. If the heart has stopped only then can they perform their procedure not due to the inability but the legality, humans by law can't be frozen alive.

The freezing temperatures kills a human! No matter how far you try to push this to fact it remains fictitious that a human is alive while being frozen unless alterations to the anatomy are present. The reason for this is that if a human body freezes the inside of their cells expand and pushes through their walls which is a lot worst than what cancer would do to you... However, when oxygen consumption is reduced there is a potential that a human can survive in frozen suspended animation and there have been cases where this has happened. Whether this might be possible in hypersleep I wouldn't know...

Please feel free to bring some ideas :)

Thank you to Local Trouble for asking the question that brought this up. And Openmaw for his suggestion on hibernation.

Sources:
Cryonics
http://zidbits.com/2011/02/can-a-human-be-frozen-and-brought-back-to-life/
http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/physics-terms/cryogenics-info.htm

North American Tree Frog
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070220-frog-antifreeze.html

No oxygen and freezing temperatures
http://m.livescience.com/6594-mystery-explained-frozen-humans-brought.html

Snark

I don't think that "hypersleep" is actually fully freezing the occupants. I believe it is similar to 2001: A Space Odyssey, where the passenger has all life systems slowed down to an extreme point due to the body being cooled, but not frozen solid. Drugs would probably be used to help slow down and maintain the life systems.

There was a thought that besides the fact of putting the crew to sleep to conserve resources and sanity for a long journey, hyperspace travel would have negative side effects to conscious non shielded human beings. I think this was mentioned in the Colonial Marines Tech Manual (to be taken with a grain of salt), but maybe there was truth to this though the scripts or production materials of Alien and Aliens. I know they used some of this information in the creation of the book for other subjects (i.e. LV-426). Please correct me if I am wrong.

Spoonman101

Quote from: Snark on Jun 24, 2014, 05:49:26 PM
I don't think that "hypersleep" is actually fully freezing the occupants. I believe it is similar to 2001: A Space Odyssey, where the passenger has all life systems slowed down to an extreme point due to the body being cooled, but not frozen solid. Drugs would probably be used to help slow down and maintain the life systems.
That's where the Weyland Effect blinds us.
If you were to be slowed down then wouldn't you still age? For example: If I brought the tree frog to Antarctica, waited beyond its life expectancy then bring it back and thaw it out, would it be alive?

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

#3
Here's what the CMTM says:

QuoteDue to the heavy demands on the life support systems and the inverse relativistic effects of travel at supralight speeds, crew and transported personnel are usually stored for extended periods in cryogenic hypersleep capsules. While in hypersleep, the ship's automated systems maintain the crew's body functions at enormously slowed rates, reviving them when they reach their destination. This revivification process can take up to 30 minutes and is a perfectly safe process for a healthy individual.

Spoonman101

Nice find Eighth! I wonder if there is anything that backs up if hibernation can happen in reality otherwise it seems that this would be a fiction aimed scenario. :)

Local Trouble

The CMTM is gahbage.

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

Why? The hypersleep segment backs up what we see in the film.

Local Trouble

The fact that it can't even do simple math when it comes to calculating the Sulaco's top speed means I throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Spoonman101

Is the book considered canon?

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

It's an officially licensed publication from Fox. Make of that what you will.

Spoonman101

Aren't the games officially licensed publications of Fox?


Spoonman101

Weyland Effect...


OpenMaw

Like I said when this particular subject came up in the other thread i've always assumed the system by which this is handled is closer to an artificial form of hibernation, with much heftier dilation effects with regards to aging.

I never thought it was literally "freezing" the subjects. That, more than likely, is just a euphemism used by those who have lived with the technology and humorously liken the experience to being in a near vegetative state, or alternatively referring to "freezing" in the sense of it is halting any changes in bio-chemistry within the person's body, or at the least reducing it a few hundred fold.

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