Starmap: NOT an invitation - so what is it?

[BANE]

Also from a different page of the same site http://www.projectprometheus.com/crew/

The mission of Project Prometheus is to seek out the actual origin of mankind, wherever it may be. Weyland Industries believes this voyage will yield extraordinary dividends for its investors; financially and spiritually. This mission is incredible in scope: not only do we endeavor to bring vital knowledge back to investors, but it will mark the furthest a human has ever ventured into our universe. Because of the high level of risk involved, Weyland has searched far and wide to find the most skilled, dedicated and exceptional professionals to contribute their expertise to the mission. These are the people who will build a better world for us all.

And yet ....... 

Hmmm. 

I guess I was wrong. Ah well.

I don't really think any of them did anything particularly stupid, though. Millburn being the only probable exception, and even then, hindsight is 20/20.

So am I right in thinking that project Prometheus was started before Shaw and Holloway's discovery? Because it would be interesting that Weyland had had the idea for a while to search for mankind's origins, as if the company already knew it was from somewhere else besides earth. This could be explored in a sequel, and might explain the companies' fascination with and previous knowledge of the Alien in ALIEN. Because Prometheus has shown us the Engineers have certainly been in contact with the aliens before, and if Weyland knew about the Engineers...

As for the crew not knowing each other before the mission...I have no idea. Previous engagements on the parts of the individuals? Interference by Weyland to achieve his own personal goals? Or, as many people think, lazy writing?  I'm not sure anymore. Maybe it was fast tracked by Weyland once Shaw and Holloway's info came in, because he  was dying? Maybe it's procedure to take off and brief before arriving at the planet (like the marines in ALIENS)?

[SM]

Starmap: NOT an invitation - so what is it?

[episodenone]

Same can be applied to the colonial marines in Aliens - they were supposed to be an elite, but they were a bunch of idiots who had zero respect for the chain of command.

Have you seen the disappointment of the crew when they learned that Gorman had only done 2 combat jumps including that one and also when Gorman told them not to use their weapons when they got into the area where the colonists were located? That explains why the crew who were more experienced than Gorman subsequently lost their respect for him. You hate Gorman for it and build sympathy for the crew. The story tallies.

Also, why was the man in charge (Gorman) a complete moron?

It was Burke who introduced Gorman to Ripley. You can feel that the choice of inexperienced commander was deliberately done by by Burke who has his own agendas, or even the company, to ensure that they don't wipe the entire Aliens out and at least get one back to the base. You can see from the movie about Burke's hidden agenda. It is all in the script and the big screen.

But that's you simply filling in gaps in Aliens that could be construed (if you were looking at it objectively) as logic holes and conveniences. Why would Burke (being the only one who believed Ripley's story) sabotage a mission that would severely jeopardize his own safety? It would be in his own interest to ensure that the mission was carried out correctly and with the right people.

Knowing that there was an alien spacecraft on the planet (with all that possible technology for commandeering) and the very high risk of deadly xenos (which they clearly wanted to get their hands on), why would they just send a bunch of hapless marines - who have itchy trigger fingers and nuclear weapons... and who don't get briefed until they are about to go down to the planet??? It's f**king stupid... Where were the scientists, the biologists etc. etc for a mission which would involve encountering aliens and alien technology??? See when you start to put the other movies under the same microscope; they produce the same results (even if ultimately 'better' movies).

sadly -- theses same people who lack the ability to think for themselves will wait 20 years and reminisce about how great prometheus is.

no point in fighting this battle -- you are making too much sense

[SM]

But that's you simply filling in gaps in Aliens that could be construed (if you were looking at it objectively) as logic holes and conveniences. Why would Burke (being the only one who believed Ripley's story) sabotage a mission that would severely jeopardize his own safety? It would be in his own interest to ensure that the mission was carried out correctly and with the right people.

Knowing that there was an alien spacecraft on the planet (with all that possible technology for commandeering) and the very high risk of deadly xenos (which they clearly wanted to get their hands on), why would they just send a bunch of hapless marines - who have itchy trigger fingers and nuclear weapons... and who don't get briefed until they are about to go down to the planet??? It's f**king stupid... Where were the scientists, the biologists etc. etc for a mission which would involve encountering aliens and alien technology??? See when you start to put the other movies under the same microscope; they produce the same results (even if ultimately 'better' movies).

Erm... that's all addressed in the film during the exchange between Ripley and Burke after she finds out he wants to the take the huggers back.

[episodenone]

But that's you simply filling in gaps in Aliens that could be construed (if you were looking at it objectively) as logic holes and conveniences. Why would Burke (being the only one who believed Ripley's story) sabotage a mission that would severely jeopardize his own safety? It would be in his own interest to ensure that the mission was carried out correctly and with the right people.

Knowing that there was an alien spacecraft on the planet (with all that possible technology for commandeering) and the very high risk of deadly xenos (which they clearly wanted to get their hands on), why would they just send a bunch of hapless marines - who have itchy trigger fingers and nuclear weapons... and who don't get briefed until they are about to go down to the planet??? It's f**king stupid... Where were the scientists, the biologists etc. etc for a mission which would involve encountering aliens and alien technology??? See when you start to put the other movies under the same microscope; they produce the same results (even if ultimately 'better' movies).

Erm... that's all addressed in the film during the exchange between Ripley and Burke after she finds out he wants to the take the huggers back.

Except that there are a million plot holes in Aliens that everyone chooses to overlook. Yes - chooses = they make the choice.

When I think of how many people praise Cameron's Alien design over the Deacon... when Cameron himself says he chose to abandon much of Giger's design in favor of movement and shadows.

Imagine that -- this pillar of cinematic perfection steering his design away from Giger - and actually devolving the Xeno -- yhet conveniently ignored by the vast majority [not all] posters here.

It defies logic.  Come on SM -- search your feelings - you know this to be true.

[SM]

Except that there are a million plot holes in Aliens that everyone chooses to overlook.

Such as?  Cos the one above isn't.

Design changes aren't plot holes as such.  Winston himself was a bit torn 'cos he didn't want to repeat someone else's work.  Yet said he had to remain faithful to it.

[Promethée]

Also from a different page of the same site http://www.projectprometheus.com/crew/

The mission of Project Prometheus is to seek out the actual origin of mankind, wherever it may be. Weyland Industries believes this voyage will yield extraordinary dividends for its investors; financially and spiritually. This mission is incredible in scope: not only do we endeavor to bring vital knowledge back to investors, but it will mark the furthest a human has ever ventured into our universe. Because of the high level of risk involved, Weyland has searched far and wide to find the most skilled, dedicated and exceptional professionals to contribute their expertise to the mission. These are the people who will build a better world for us all.

And yet ....... 

Now that doesn't make sense anymore... 

The 2073 text implies that the project has been around for quite a while, and they just found a "classified destination" that puts the project back on track.
But Weyland doesn't know about Shaw until 2079 wich means she doesn't have any purpose since the company has already the location...
And then the mission isn't classified anymore

"Weyland Industries believes this voyage will yield extraordinary dividends for its investors; financially and spiritually"

Finally it says that no one has ever traveled so far, and it's a high risk mission

it will mark the furthest a human has ever ventured into our universe. Because of the high level of risk involved, Weyland has searched far and wide to find the most skilled  etc...

That would mean you have to know what the mission is about before signing in, no way you just get in there like a tourist just because you're paid good money.


All  that seems to me is that there is no real thought out timeline, and they are just making stuff up and throwing it out there because it sounds cool.

[Highland]

Honestly I wouldn't be bothered with that kind of detail in any of the movies I watch. I was not bothered with how Prometheus crew could breath in the temple while there was a big hole in the temple. I can live without small detail.

Small detail being that lieutenant Ripley and a good chunk of well trained Marines including the corporal lead the entire surviving group into a room that could be accessed via above, below or simple air vents? AFTER looking at the schematics? They might as well have hung some T-bone steaks on the door. This scene was originally much worse because the whole sentry gun "thing" was absent in the original cut.

That's kind of a perfect example, because what you find small others may find massive.

I can quite easily find you 5 glaring holes in Aliens if you want. They are not that hard to find. It is however, a great movie and I can give it a pass on most of these. EDIT : Actually I'll rephrase that, there's nothing glaring, but there are some things in Aliens that don't quite add up. There are also a lot of bloopers. Look em up on the net (Although that's nothing really to do with plot holes).

[SiL]

Small detail being that lieutenant Ripley and a good chunk of well trained Marines including the corporal lead the entire surviving group into a room that could be accessed via above, below or simple air vents? AFTER looking at the schematics? They might as well have hung some T-bone steaks on the door. This scene was originally much worse because the whole sentry gun "thing" was absent in the original cut.

The suspended ceiling and subflooring weren't in the schematics, and the vents opened into Medical, the next room over.

Hence Ripley saying "Must be something we missed".

I mean I get your point, but that's not one of Aliens' problems

[Chris!(($$))!]

So...why exactly did multiple ancient astronauts bother to meticulously describe a star configuration in the sky to many different primitive civilizations so that they could draw it into artefacts or cave walls? Heck, the primitive folks couldnt even see it in the night sky!

I think this revolves around the idea that the Engineers have different opinions. People have suggested that the Engie that survived in Prometheus had basically killed or trapped all the others.

[Anonymous User]

I don't really think any of them did anything particularly stupid, though. Millburn being the only probable exception, and even then, hindsight is 20/20.

The joint smoking mohican geologist whose responsibility was to map the entire structure with his pups but managed to get lost in the temple is called Fifield.
The biologist who was frightened by the sight of the beheaded Engineer but wanted to hug a hissing strange looking snake is called Milburn.

The 2073 text implies that the project has been around for quite a while, and they just found a "classified destination" that puts the project back on track.
But Weyland doesn't know about Shaw until 2079 wich means she doesn't have any purpose since the company has already the location...
And then the mission isn't classified anymore

Indeed, if we take into account that website then Shaw and Holloway involvement becomes redundant.  Weyland knew the exact coordinates of the location 6 years before they met Shaw.

[BANE]

The joint smoking mohican geologist whose responsibility was to map the entire structure with his pups but managed to get lost in the temple is called Fifield.
The biologist who was frightened by the sight of the beheaded Engineer but wanted to hug a hissing strange looking snake is called Milburn.

I do know their names...

For your first point:
1) He smoked marijuana while stressed out and stuck in a deserted facility. He wasn't working, he was anxiously awaiting the end of a storm and the rising of the sun.
2) If my memory serves, the map is on the Prometheus, not with him. I do not recall if he has access to the map, but I don't think so. I know he has coordinates, but those are about as useful in an unknown location as finding your way through a forest with longitude and latitude. How they got lost is beyond me. They did blindly follow a hologram, so that probably played a factor. Why they weren't in contact with Janek to help is also a mystery. Maybe he thought 'they got this''. Maybe he was busy with tracking the storm progress and looking at what the main group was seeing. Maybe they didn't know they were lost until it was too late, and thought they were going the right way and didn't ask for help. Or, maybe it was simple plot convenience.

As for Milburn:
1) So what, he was creeped out by a beheaded giant bipedal alien.
2) He didn't hug it, he reached out to pet it. It had a very small mouth, logically not small enough to contain fangs, like other snakes its size. Indicating it would either have small teeth, or be a constrictor. At that size, it wouldn't be a very strong constrictor. However, back to what was on film. He was confident that the gloves and suit would protect him. Like how people tease lions through the glass at zoos. Except there was no possible way he could have guessed it would be bone crushing strong, bleed acid, and regrow limbs instantly.

[Darth Vile]

But that's you simply filling in gaps in Aliens that could be construed (if you were looking at it objectively) as logic holes and conveniences. Why would Burke (being the only one who believed Ripley's story) sabotage a mission that would severely jeopardize his own safety? It would be in his own interest to ensure that the mission was carried out correctly and with the right people.

Knowing that there was an alien spacecraft on the planet (with all that possible technology for commandeering) and the very high risk of deadly xenos (which they clearly wanted to get their hands on), why would they just send a bunch of hapless marines - who have itchy trigger fingers and nuclear weapons... and who don't get briefed until they are about to go down to the planet??? It's f**king stupid... Where were the scientists, the biologists etc. etc for a mission which would involve encountering aliens and alien technology??? See when you start to put the other movies under the same microscope; they produce the same results (even if ultimately 'better' movies).

Erm... that's all addressed in the film during the exchange between Ripley and Burke after she finds out he wants to the take the huggers back.

Erm... it's not. Ripley explains what Burke was going to do after she'd rumbled him (although let's not get into how she managed to jump to those conclusions), but the film doesn't explain what Burke's original plan was. Another poster suggested that he specifically sabotaged the mission so he could get the xeno. But again, that doesn't add up... as he didn't even know, until he got to the base, that there would be facehuggers... and where was the multi-billion dollar company behind all this??? Was that the extent of their plan? To see what happens???

[Blacklabel]

Darth, Burke is familiar with Ripley's account of what happened aboard the Nostromo (he mentions to Bishop that the android in her ship had a malfunction).. therefore, he knows about the facehuggers.

[Anonymous User]

I do know their names...

For your first point:
1) He smoked marijuana while stressed out and stuck in a deserted facility. He wasn't working, he was anxiously awaiting the end of a storm and the rising of the sun.
2) If my memory serves, the map is on the Prometheus, not with him. I do not recall if he has access to the map, but I don't think so. I know he has coordinates, but those are about as useful in an unknown location as finding your way through a forest with longitude and latitude. How they got lost is beyond me. They did blindly follow a hologram, so that probably played a factor. Why they weren't in contact with Janek to help is also a mystery. Maybe he thought 'they got this''. Maybe he was busy with tracking the storm progress and looking at what the main group was seeing. Maybe they didn't know they were lost until it was too late, and thought they were going the right way and didn't ask for help. Or, maybe it was simple plot convenience.

As for Milburn:
1) So what, he was creeped out by a beheaded giant bipedal alien.
2) He didn't hug it, he reached out to pet it. It had a very small mouth, logically not small enough to contain fangs, like other snakes its size. Indicating it would either have small teeth, or be a constrictor. At that size, it wouldn't be a very strong constrictor. However, back to what was on film. He was confident that the gloves and suit would protect him. Like how people tease lions through the glass at zoos. Except there was no possible way he could have guessed it would be bone crushing strong, bleed acid, and regrow limbs instantly.

And I am certain that they both look like the most skilled, dedicated and exceptional professionals to contribute their expertise to the mission