Things you just hate in the world

[maledoro]

It isn't a few ignorant people, it's 70% of the local population that find it offensive.

Where are you getting this "70%" statistic?

Plus, a hell of a lot of construction workers have refused to aid in building this thing.

So? It's not justified. There are others who will build it.

Yes, the Muslims have good intentions, yes, people may need to change their attitudes, but by building the mosque there they aren't doing anything for themselves

They will be doing more by building the community center. The main setback is people who carry your view.

they're having their public image degraded.

Once again, it's not of their doing.

Yes, it may not be their fault, but it's happening nonetheless. Yes, they need a larger center, but move it further away for f**ks' sake so you don't stir up more of an issue.

One more time: it's not a big deal unless people make it one. Did you ever wonder why it wasn't an issue several years ago when it was announced that it was going to be constructed there?

2 blocks clearly isn't enough, even though it is pretty far. Why not 5 blocks and evade the whole thing? They didn't think this all the way through.

According to those same people, anywhere in the Western Hemisphere is too close. Why move the center out of a Muslim neighborhood and into a possibly Jewish neighborhood? Why not move the already exisiting Muslim population out of there as well? Sounds like you didn't think this all the way through, unless you're just being argumentive.

[DoomRulz]

Though I do agree with your point about the mosque being built on ground zero; very bad idea. I mean, they're only inviting the building to be vandalized and destroyed belong recognition.

A few things that got distorted or ignored:

1. It's not a mosque. It's a community center à la a Muslim YMCA. It will have a prayer room, but the main focus of the building is not for services.

That's good news, but given anti-Muslim sentiment in the States, I stand by statement about the building being destroyed.

[AvatarIII]

i'm with mal 100% on this.

americans hating all muslims because the al quieda exist is like black people hating all white people because the KKK exists.

[maledoro]

That's good news, but given anti-Muslim sentiment in the States, I stand by statement about the building being destroyed.

It's not going to be destroyed. You're getting swept up in the sensationalism of it.

Again:

1. There are two mosques in that neighborhood; it will not be of any more consequence than them.

2. There isn't that much anti-Muslim hatred. It's just how some in the media make it look. Read this.

[BANE]

Where are you getting this "70%" statistic?

Actually, upon further research the percent varies from about 28%-70% against the project.

They will be doing more by building the community center. The main setback is people who carry your view.

So people who carry my view, a view which is that I don't mind them building there but think they could have done a better PR job, are the ones setting them back? Well I'll be! I thought it was the f**kers threatening vandalism and to destroy the bulding! My bad, I didn't know my acceptance was doing so much damage.

And by the way, them building the community center near ground zero is sparking a f**kload of controversy that had abated/started to abate since 9/11. Two blocks is far, I agree, but clearly not far enough.

Once again, it's not of their doing.

They plan the building, they get it approved, people start getting angry and anti-muslim rage gets worse because they're so close, and yet they barge forward expecting people not to get angry and to accept them. Could they move it further away? Sure they could. Would that have solved the problem? Maybe not entirely, but it shows a lot of people that they are aware of the concerns of people and that they are willing to accomadate. Instead, they stay where they are and tension grows. It's at least partially they're doing. They certainly ain't helping it, especially when they go on the radio and call all their opponents islamophobes and ignorant people. That fuels the muslim-hate train even further.

According to those same people, anywhere in the Western Hemisphere is too close. Why move the center out of a Muslim neighborhood and into a possibly Jewish neighborhood? Why not move the already exisiting Muslim population out of there as well? Sounds like you didn't think this all the way through, unless you're just being argumentive.

I'm sure they could find a way. They raised $100 million dollars for this center: you can do a lot for that amount of money.

Again, I'm not against it, I just think they could have handled it better.

[maledoro]

Actually, upon further research the percent varies from about 28%-70% against the project.

That's quite an inaccurate arc. I'm still curious as to who came up with the 70% stat.

So people who carry my view, a view which is that I don't mind them building there but think they could have done a better PR job, are the ones setting them back? Well I'll be! I thought it was the f**kers threatening vandalism and to destroy the bulding! My bad, I didn't know my acceptance was doing so much damage.

What "better PR" job? They were going to have it there and had let everyone know this years ago. The stink was raised only recently.

And by the way, them building the community center near ground zero is sparking a f**kload of controversy that had abated/started to abate since 9/11.

It did not. Show me the earliest reference to opposition.

They plan the building, they get it approved, people start getting angry and anti-muslim rage gets worse because they're so close, and yet they barge forward expecting people not to get angry and to accept them. Could they move it further away? Sure they could. Would that have solved the problem? Maybe not entirely, but it shows a lot of people that they are aware of the concerns of people and that they are willing to accomadate. Instead, they stay where they are and tension grows. It's at least partially they're doing. They certainly ain't helping it, especially when they go on the radio and call all their opponents islamophobes and ignorant people. That fuels the muslim-hate train even further.

Once again, instead of overcoming my points, you keep recycling your old ones.

[Hawkins]

you seem to in support of a Corporatist

Actually, you sound like the corporatist as you don't want government regulation.

who put bills like the health care reform in to gives lazy people health care they did not earn

And the hard-working people who can't afford healthcare due to unregulated insurance companies jacking up costs.

and eventually obama will rise taxes to support his broken bill.

Too bad your corporation and corporations like it will carry most of the cost.

i'm all for helping people but when a nation has over 100,000 people that look forward to milking the system I have a problem with that,and I don't care if free health care is given to people with disabilities or people in the 50's.

I'm not surprised; you don't seem to care about anybody but yourself and other corporate stooges.

another thing obama did was pretty much calling Arizona's state law giving the police officers the power to ask people who are immigrants for their green card racist and unconstitutional.I don't see that at all cause if you are a immigrant you need to have you green card on you at all times just like you need to have a driver's license on you at all times.

It's not having a green card on you at all times that's the issue, it's being stopped just because you look or are Hispanic.

and that state started it because the crime rate is very high because illegal immigrants hoping the border in Mexico and the feds arnt doing their job to stop it right now.

And other states with higher crime rates aren't? Hmmm...

Arizona is known as the kidnap capital in the united states because of illegal immigrants that are committing severe crimes and the cops need more power to help protect the people that are trying to protect.

That must mean that all Hispanic people are automatically guilty?

Obama not responding to the oil spill for 7 days is an out rage and unacceptable.He did get bp to pay 20 billion to the people that were affect but those people just can't take the money they need to get their business back up they have to get permission which is stupid and then when it gets apoved it takes long time to get the money.

It's not his responsibility to be a first-responder; it's BP's. As for the "permission", that's up to BP, too.

The mosque that obama approved to be built two blocks from ground zero is a slap in the face to every American especially those who lost loved ones because of that religion

He had no say over the planning of the community center as the plans were made before he was in Office.

(I have nothing against the religion just the extremist that go to far) saying that they must kill all the non Islamic believers.

Fine, so that you don't come across as a racist asshole (too late!), condemn the extremists only and let the peaceful Muslims have their community center which forbids extremism within its walls.

I have many friends from different races(Hispanic,Asian,Black,Samoans,Fuji,Tongans,and have friends that are from Iran)  so piss off with that im a racist crap. noting racist about that bill Arizona tried to put into lay,Arizona has a big Hispanic ratio like 1,700,--- something and the bill will target all immigrants not just the Hispanic culture but the cops just can't stop them for no reason at all it has to be a traffic stop or say a domestic dispute call if the cop will ask them about the immigration status.

yea other states have high crime rates but they arnt constantly facing a drug war with the drug cartels operating in Mexico and hiring any one that is willing to get across the border for a certain price from Mexico, and just recently Mexico just fired like 1200 of their police officers for connections to those cartels.

BTW doom iI'll do a better job at better wording my post its just a bit difficult because what I don't think is hostile tend to seem hostile to others.

[BANE]

What "better PR" job? They were going to have it there and had let everyone know this years ago. The stink was raised only recently.

It was raised when it got approved. No one cared before, because at that point it was just some random, dismissable idea that everyone thought was going to get turned down.

Once again, instead of overcoming my points, you keep recycling your old ones.

Because I haven't read anything that you've said that overcomes my belief that they could have done a better job in calming peoples' rash reactions. Instead, they fuel it and are surprised when haters be haters.

[maledoro]

It was raised when it got approved. No one cared before, because at that point it was just some random, dismissable idea that everyone thought was going to get turned down.

Again, I ask you for the earliest reference to this. Post it.

Because I haven't read anything that you've said that overcomes my belief that they could have done a better job in calming peoples' rash reactions. Instead, they fuel it and are surprised when haters be haters.

Because you're of this mindset that since somebody else started it, they should have defend themselves. Right. I pointed you to the source; you just refuse to accept it because it doesn't fit in with your worldview.

As many times as you repeat something, it isn't the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhHb2y2niCs
No, BLAIN, it isn't a jackal.

[Hawkins]

I only heard of the Mosque plan this month or last can't remember I don't remember hearing a bout it before then.

[BANE]

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/16/ground_zero_mosque_origins
Mosque approved, news goes wild, people get angry. Mostly the news' fault as you said. This shows the "70% dissaproval rating" stat that I had originally posted. However, it's from all of America, not just NY.

Because you're of this mindset that since somebody else started it, they should have defend themselves. Right. I pointed you to the source; you just refuse to accept it because it doesn't fit in with your worldview.

As many times as you repeat something, it isn't the truth.

Again, I haven't read anything you've posted that makes me think that they couldn't have done a better job in qualming peoples' harsh feelings. I may be repeating myself, but that's because I;ve yet to have my beliefs changed. I think they can build the mosque: I have nothing against them (anymore, after reading both what you said on Alien Experience and after researching a bit more) and I commend their intentions. But they handled it wrong (or not as well as it could have been handled), and nothing you've posted has swayed my belief in this. Maybe they handled it as well as they possibly could have, but the fact is, I think they could have done a better job.

[maledoro]

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/16/ground_zero_mosque_origins
Mosque approved, news goes wild, people get angry. Mostly the news' fault as you said. This shows the "70% dissaproval rating" stat that I had originally posted. However, it's from all of America, not just NY.

1. I want an article from the date in question.

Again, I haven't read anything you've posted that makes me think that they couldn't have done a better job in qualming peoples' harsh feelings. I may be repeating myself, but that's because I;ve yet to have my beliefs changed. I think they can build the mosque: I have nothing against them (anymore, after reading both what you said on Alien Experience and after researching a bit more) and I commend their intentions. But they handled it wrong (or not as well as it could have been handled), and nothing you've posted has swayed my belief in this. Maybe they handled it as well as they possibly could have, but the fact is, I think they could have done a better job.

Again, you've failed to say why the burden is on the Muslims and not those stirring the pot.

[FUZION PREDATOR]

About what are you debating precisly? (sorry i'm a new comer)

[maledoro]

BLAIN thinks that since anti-Muslims are poo-pooing the building of a community center in an established Muslim neighborhood out of sight from Ground Zero that Muslims should better their image or build the center outside of the established Muslim neighborhood.

[FUZION PREDATOR]

Well and what's your personnaly point about it?