Alien or Predator?

[Race_of_Hunters]

EDIT: You also assume that I think honour is inherently good. I think it's a concept that weakens any monster that we're supposed to fear. One of the reasons I dislike honour when it comes to the Predator is that it essentially hamstrings it.

Depends on the threat that you're making him into ...

We clearly see that you can have a warped code of ethics or honor and still be terrifying.

[MadassAlex]

/facepalm.

Since I was being sarcastic, my point didn't need to be supported. Because it wasn't a point - it was a counterpoint. Besides, the Alien moves at incredible speeds in the tunnel scene, where its signal moves way faster than Dallas can. And when it kills Brett, it basically just flies the f**k up out of that room.

As for your first paragraph:

Can you prove that Anytime was doing that out of honour and not just straight-up fun? What ever suggests that he's showing respect to Dutch and not just getting hard over the prospect of an enemy that can take a beating? Is it his attempts to shoot Dutch down with plasma blasts after the initial escape? Or pulling out the wristblades when he intends to finish Dutch off?

[The Demon]

Kane's Son didn't take advantage of his incredible speed and agility in Alien because he felt that the Nostromo crew didn't have enough of a chance.

Egg-morphing was a symbol of his honour, taking the ones he thought to be worthy to be converted into his own kind.

I don't get when you guys say that. The things was slow.

[MadassAlex]

As above, it went really, really fast on the tracker. It also made a huge vertical jump in absolutely no time at all.

[The Demon]

Its creepier anyway that you never really see the thing sprinting but it would pop up out of no where, tower over someone and kill them.

[The PredBen]

I believe Kane's son was without a doubt the strongest Alien ever. I mean he moved slower but that can be explained because he knew the crew were weaker.

I mean unlike later Aliens he was meant to be intelligent. Moreso then the human crew at least. He seemed to favor ambush tactics without the need for agility or speed.

And on the Predator note: Preds have no honor in Predator 1. The Predator killed enemies from far away. And the only reason the Pred spares unarmed enemies is because it isn't any fun. Not because it feels like killing an unarmed prey is evil.

....

[Quick N Slick]

I believe Kane's son was without a doubt the strongest Alien ever. I mean he moved slower but that can be explained because he knew the crew were weaker.

I mean unlike later Aliens he was meant to be intelligent. Moreso then the human crew at least. He seemed to favor ambush tactics without the need for agility or speed.

And on the Predator note: Preds have no honor in Predator 1. The Predator killed enemies from far away. And the only reason the Pred spares unarmed enemies is because it isn't any fun. Not because it feels like killing an unarmed prey is evil.

....

I'm not certain what you mean, so I want to clarify.

"...Moreso than the human crew, at least..."

Are you saying Kane's Son had an intelligence which surpassed humans?

[The PredBen]

He could've had one that suprassed the human crew. Early on the Alien was meant to be able to be very intelligent.

I mean in one draft of Alien the Space Jockey's ship turned out to be the alien's ship. And Ridley Scott wanted the alien to be intelligent as did everyone working on the film.

Then Cameron came along and made the Alien's into bugs. I honestly disliked Aliens and I thought it damaged the aliens from being mysterious beasts to simple bugs relying on numbers.

[Quick N Slick]

There is still nothing in the film, at the end of the day, to show their intellect surpasses humans.

I actually prefer the portrayal of them as mindless termite-esque beasts. They just have so many advantages already, physically & all, that when you combine that with their numbers, well...I like a creature to be exploitable in weakness somewhere, no matter how badass it may be. More believable that way, IMO.

[OmegaZilla]

My God, what's up with them being "termites"? Hell, this time humans got weapons, it's obvious that they are going to kill aliens somehow.... the Aliens are just as intelligent and deadly as the original one.

[MadassAlex]

That's certainly an arguable standpoint. They certainly never do anything that contradicts Kane's Son.

There is still nothing in the film, at the end of the day, to show their intellect surpasses humans.

And there's nothing in the film depicting them as Lovecraftian nightmare warriors created from the stuff of shadows... yet that's still a part of the concept under O'Bannon's writing and definitely a part of Giger's direction in bringing the creature to life.

Absolutes aren't as important as the thematic concepts.

I actually prefer the portrayal of them as mindless termite-esque beasts. They just have so many advantages already, physically & all, that when you combine that with their numbers, well...I like a creature to be exploitable in weakness somewhere, no matter how badass it may be. More believable that way, IMO.

Believability, for me, is in the atmosphere and the draw of any given film. Alien did that with acting that I couldn't tell was acting, characters that seemed organic, architecture that never made me question the film and a creature that was so powerfully close to its namesake that it instantly became more believable than any other monster bearing the name.

The lack of weaknesses part is the Lovecraftian aspect speaking. His monsters rarely had any sort of weakness, simply because they represented the iron fist of reality that can slam you into place. And Lovecraft knew all about that, too - he was the son of a wealthy couple, both of whom died early in his life, forcing him to spend his 40 or so years in poverty and misery.

Aliens having any real weakness is really a subversion of the original film and the underlying concept. They're supposed to seem insurmountable and unstoppable. Because that's good cinema.

[Aeus]

Quick, if you find Aliens unbelievable then you're missing the point. They're the modern day Lovecraft poster boy. Space coughed up something so horrific it defies rationale by any human. At least that's how it largely was before Aliens showed up.

[huntin8-t0n]

No, it's a way to give the human more chance. More thrilling, more valuable.

But humans pose no physical threat. It's not more of a chance. In a purely hand-to-hand fight a Predator will win.

He posed more of a threat like that. The pred with the sc and his mask could turn the tables anytime against the human without a gun. Like this he accepted the outcome of the battle, no matter of what it was. We saw the predator was superior in strengjt, but he didn't know. I think he assumed that, but he couldn't be sure of the extent of it.
But what matters is the inevitable fact, that Dutch had no chance against the pc, and like this he had more.

(Humans don't pose a physichal strenght on their own, and they don't really have a chance. If you ask me, AT though at first as I see Dutch has someting up in his sleeves, and got cautious. That's why Dutch wanted to 'prove' he didn't have any aces left,and lure him to his trap.
But to be frank this has no value as an argument. I see it just like that.)

The whole keeping-skull-as-respect thing has different interpretations. For instance, the mutilation of the corpse might be a symbol of dominance more than anything else.

As I see, yes.That's why it can't be interpreted as simple killing or fun of the sport. No material value, but rather in the mental sphere.

[The PredBen]

While Cameron's film didn't do anything that contridicts Kane's son they did act simplier.

Also they became bugs relying on numbers. From Aliens onward Aliens have been bugs. Prior to Aliens they were not seen as bugs.

[DoomRulz]

Not just numbers; living in a hive also gave that impression, along with having a Queen, like a bee colony.