Aliens Bishop

[Xenomrph]

You're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.

You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.

Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.

I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.

[xShadowFoxX]

You're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.

You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.

Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.

I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.

The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.

[Xenomrph]

You're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.

You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.

Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.

I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.

The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.

Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.

Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.

Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.

Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.

Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.

[Local Trouble]

Gaska's attitude of wanting to get paid for his time and work seems sensible to me.

If he really cared, he'd do it for free!

[Xenomrph]

Gaska's attitude of wanting to get paid for his time and work seems sensible to me.

If he really cared, he'd do it for free!

For a long time he did, but you gotta value your own time. If you're good at what you do, don't do it for free.

[xShadowFoxX]

You're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.

You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.

Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.

I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.

The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.

Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.

Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.

Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.

Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.

Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.

But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.

Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.

[Xenomrph]

You're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.

You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.

Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.

I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.

The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.

Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.

Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.

Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.

Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.

Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.

But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.

Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.

The point of the RPG is that you can have adventures in the setting without it being a retread of the first 3 movies. It broadens the definition of what it means to be an "Alien" story.

I just came up with 3 examples (2 of which feature creatures from the movies).

Mandating the inclusion of Aliens in an Aliens-brand story is one of the core problems with the Bishop novel, for example - the book would be much more interesting if Aliens never showed up.

[xShadowFoxX]

You're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.

You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.

Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.

I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.

The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.

Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.

Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.

Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.

Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.

Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.

But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.

Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.

The point of the RPG is that you can have adventures in the setting without it being a retread of the first 3 movies. It broadens the definition of what it means to be an "Alien" story.

I just came up with 3 examples (2 of which feature creatures from the movies).

Mandating the inclusion of Aliens in an Aliens-brand story is one of the core problems with the Bishop novel, for example - the book would be much more interesting if Aliens never showed up.

A fair assessment but then.. why have the RPG at all? I feel like I'm also circling around because I like my Alien universe/galaxy pretty empty but I also love some of these stories and the RPG gives you plenty to play with.. but I also feel it gives you too much to play with in a confined space, particularly if you're an author. As gamers, it's whatever.

[Xenomrph]

You're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.

You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.

Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.

I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.

The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.

Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.

Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.

Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.

Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.

Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.

But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.

Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.

The point of the RPG is that you can have adventures in the setting without it being a retread of the first 3 movies. It broadens the definition of what it means to be an "Alien" story.

I just came up with 3 examples (2 of which feature creatures from the movies).

Mandating the inclusion of Aliens in an Aliens-brand story is one of the core problems with the Bishop novel, for example - the book would be much more interesting if Aliens never showed up.

A fair assessment but then.. why have the RPG at all? I feel like I'm also circling around because I like my Alien universe/galaxy pretty empty but I also love some of these stories and the RPG gives you plenty to play with.. but I also feel it gives you too much to play with in a confined space, particularly if you're an author. As gamers, it's whatever.

I think I'd rather have too much to play with than too little.

What don't mean by "why have the RPG at all?"

[xShadowFoxX]

You're all just reminding me of how constrained these books actually are. Like, we have the black goo, the RPG, and the films, like the books aren't necessarily allowed to stray from those sources. AS good as some of these books are, a good number of them are, in a word, sh*t. Colony War is probably the greatest example of that.

You'd think incorporating the RPG would open things up, considering the whole point of the RPG is to allow players the opportunity to have infinite adventures in the setting.

Like, the authors could literally craft an RPG scenario and then novelize it. I used to do it with Star Wars fan fiction - I specifically bought West End Games RPG modules and supplements for the express purpose of mining them for story ideas.

I'm not sure I'd blame the RPG itself for Titan having a mandate to make references to the RPG.

The RPG is cool and all but I find it to be more of a novelty. Even if the RPG is supposed to open things up a little bit more, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the scenarios that players tend to dive into are essentially rinse and repeat.

Again, I'm not sure that's the RPG's fault that the scenarios the players come up with aren't creative enough. The open-ended framework is there and is being continuously built upon to provide more thematic options.

Like, I could come up with a (dark) comedy scenario based around a bunch of corporate executives struggling to slit each other's throats (sometimes literally) in a corporate lab where a Neomorph ends up breaking free.

Or one where you take 'Alien' and flip the script where the space truckers get told to investigate an Alien hive and instead say "yeah, nah, f**k that, we'd rather forfeit our shares than potentially get murdered by space monsters" and then the secret Android flips out due to conflicts in his programming and goes full Terminator to subdue the crew.

Or one where a group of Marines gets deployed to neutralize a hostile military force only to figure out that the "hostile force" are AWOL Marines who bailed when they figured out they were guinea pigs for a deranged WY black goo field experiment.

Like, I mean, I just came up with all three of those off the top of my head. I don't know what the Titan mandates for RPG references are like, but it could be stuff as simple as being set on a random planet picked from the star maps in the RPG, to name-dropping a ship or character name from somewhere in one of the adventure modules, or using a piece of equipment or vehicle mentioned in the RPG.

But then, would it be Alien? Now you could argue yes, because of the characters, equipment, ships, etc, but to remove the Alien or "aliens" in general would just kind of remove the core aspect of the RPG.

Now that black goo narrative toward the end, that's just giving me another example of how constrained the universe is.

The point of the RPG is that you can have adventures in the setting without it being a retread of the first 3 movies. It broadens the definition of what it means to be an "Alien" story.

I just came up with 3 examples (2 of which feature creatures from the movies).

Mandating the inclusion of Aliens in an Aliens-brand story is one of the core problems with the Bishop novel, for example - the book would be much more interesting if Aliens never showed up.

A fair assessment but then.. why have the RPG at all? I feel like I'm also circling around because I like my Alien universe/galaxy pretty empty but I also love some of these stories and the RPG gives you plenty to play with.. but I also feel it gives you too much to play with in a confined space, particularly if you're an author. As gamers, it's whatever.

I think I'd rather have too much to play with than too little.

What don't mean by "why have the RPG at all?"

At this point, I'm fighting a migraine and I lost my train of thought. But I think I was referring to authors using the RPG as this mandated bible. That's where I was getting at.

[P1NK8C1DBOOTS]

Apologies if this is already been posted but how did this book get past the editing stage! The lead protagonist has her name spelt three different ways. Karri, Karry, Karrie - I mean come on. Lazy editing!

About half way through - it's ok, nothing special.

[xShadowFoxX]

Mm I finally read Bishop.. and.. it's not good. It's whatever.

[xShadowFoxX]

I should've stuck to my guns and avoided reading this books.

[Slutty Badger]

I should've stuck to my guns and avoided reading this books.

Don't say you weren't warned...

[Still Collating...]

Sorry Slutty Badger, you're not gonna like this...

Just finished Aliens: Bishop. Listened to the Audiobook version, so the spelling mistakes weren't a detractor for me.

Even though I heard some troubling stuff from some who've had a chance to read it before, it all just sounds a lot worse than it is actually.
The author did shoot himself in the foot by adding of his own volition another family member of movie characters after a long recent string of poorly written family members in other novels. But Apone there feels very natural, very earned and doesn't overstay his welcome, he's actually a secondary character. And as the author said, military families are a thing, so it worked better than I expected.
I jumped to conclusions and started on the wrong foot expecting I won't like it, but after a lot of positive reviews as well, I had to see for myself. Tried to go in with an open mind as much as I can.

Lets get the negatives out of the way first. Cause there were fewer of them than I feared!
The dialogue at times does seem a bit awkward, but I can't say it's unrealistic. It never ripped me out of the scene. And that katana was unnecessary, but again, it was slowly built up, earned and not too over the top. Apone was a bit unnecessary (though well written), but on the other hand, without his motivations, I doubt any other squad would've tried that hard to to for Bishop. That's about it for the negatives, not much.
Now the positives. The most important thing for me always is how the Alien is portrayed. And this here is some of the best I've seen in the novels ever. Pulse Rifles and smart guns kill them of course (but not with one bullet like in the old Perry novels), but the Aliens are fast, they dodge, stalk you and use sneak attacks. Pistols regularly ricochet from their skull as they should. The deaths are brutal, acid is not forgotten about and regularly does significant damage TO EVERYTHING. The Aliens are shown to be smart and constantly underestimated. They try to manipulate the creatures, to use them and it goes so horribly wrong cause the creatures are smarter than they anticipated. They are also extremely deadly and do some gruesome damage. From the facehugger to the adult, all stages feel like a threat.
The action is very well written unlike in the last trilogy, very descriptive and easy to follow. You can imagine the whole scene with no effort.

The worldbuilding is phenomenal. You can see the author understands and loves the expanded universe. And that Fox actually took on a writer which already writes similar stuff on his own time. The Australia wars and the UPP are very well done here. Expanded upon a good amount, written engagingly and it felt all faithful to the universe.
There's more good setup and execution of people/factions/rebels breaking away from their parent organizations than the whole of the previous "Colony War" trilogy. So it's hilarious to see that here, but welcomed!
Even though I mentioned that the dialogue is sometimes clunky, what is being said, what is meant, how they say it, the whole context of conversations is fantastic. Not one character was bland or annoying. All are memorable and engaging which is rare for me! And there are a lot of main characters and side characters. All of them have prominent good and bad qualities, nobody's perfect, virtues get used and setup, faults bite them in the ass, a lot of morally gray stuff through the book which I love.
 I was worried at first mostly by the Bishop (Michael) vs Bishop (synth) dialogue, if the author was going to be able to pull that off. That has the potential to be so bad, but was executed wonderfully. A lot of nuance, a lot of subtlety and you're never quite sure what to trust, cause there's a lot of convincing arguments. Lot of surprises, but all of them get realistic explanations in due time. Not perfect, but some of the best dialogue about the nature of AI and immortality.

The marine dialogue and interactions in the beginning is some of the best I've ever seen in the novels.

Finally someone that knows how to write synths! If they're not getting glossed over, and actually getting some focus, they're usually written very poorly like in the last trilogy. They are not stiff Doctor Who robots, in the Alien universe they can easily pass off for humans, behavior wise. Even the Working Joes have a sinister understanding and intelligence in their programmed limited responses. This author gets that. Synths may not be humans on the inside, but they sure do act like it on the outside. And that's how they're portrayed here.
The blond twins?  Loved them.
What I love most of all is that this novel has a bit of everything for everyone. And yet everything is fleshed out just enough. You want worldbuilding? Tons of it, Australian refugees, UPP, Gateway UA training camp. You want decent and intense action for a change? Say no more. Want some horror and tense moments without the rifles? You have that too. Engaging marine pov? Hell yeah. Not just Russian UPPs again? You got the Chinese pov finally. A look at a pirate's/smuggler's life? You got it. Aliens handled with dignity? Certainly. WY people having more than one brain cell and not being cartoonishly evil? Now we're talking.

So much stuff happens it feels like a rollercoaster ride. A fun one. Easily in my top 5, hope we see the author return.

It just feels a lot more fun and intense and a lot more was happening than in the recent books, it just felt very different. Maybe because I was expecting such a trainwreck, I got pleasantly surprised when this wasn't Colony War all over again.

And I'm saying this as someone who puts the Alex White novels at the top, followed by Phalanx. Really was surprised with Echo, really liked Out of the Shadows in spite of Ripley, Sea of Sorrows, enjoyed good bits of the Rage War Trilogy (even though I hated the Rage themselves and the portrayal of the Aliens...).