The black goo - A Life on Earth UPGRADE??!!

[Magegg]

Lindelof said this BS back in June. But it is worth noting that:
- Holloway wasnt killed by the black goo.

Holloway was killed by the black goo. He ingested it exactly the same way the Engineer did. And he died exactly the same way the Engineer died. There you go.

Nope, didn't notice.  I probably was distracted by all the other ridiculous nonsense and insanity going on in the film.

It's pretty clear you were never into the film.

Also, are you that pompous to believe movies must be so simple you get all the details right with an only view?

Did you watch some time a film that you had to watch it twice or more to understand?

Things look random in the film, because the characters were still trying to get into the mystery, but were killed so soon by it. I think it's a clever way to do sci-fi, but if you analize the pieces, you could get a glimpse of what was that for.


My guess is that Black Goo comes from the xenomorphs, it's like the way they spreaded their species throughout the universe, by turning them into spores and then taking them to other planets. Panspermia. It's no wonder why Xenos could survive on space.

But it seems later the Engineers tried to use Black Goo by drinking to spread their own, intelligent race by creating Humans and maybe other species.
They knew they were wrong; that's why the elders look kind of worried/concentrated in the intro scene, and why the tone is that secretive in that first scene.
They were the Prometheuses; they took the secret of spreading Life by DNA (and used it in a way to spread their sentience/knowledge)  from the xenos or the xeno masters or whatever they were, and gave life to humans. In the Spaiths script, even it goes further when it says a primitive woman was affected by the Engineer Sacrifice and started to evolve. Then fire was discovered, I guess. I don't think Lindelof/Scott idea would be far from that.

They later tried to undo that (don't know why) by killing the life they created, sending liquid on their ships.

Also, the Goo is supposedly made to be ingested; xenos don't breath, they don't need to. But when badly administered to non-xeno creatures (by breathing), the xeno DNA on it creates unstable mutations.

[Deuterium]

It's pretty clear you were never into the film.

Is it that obvious? 

Also, are you that pompous to believe movies must be so simple you get all the details right with an only view?

Getting a little insulting there, Magegg...but to answer your question...

No, in fact I love films of rich complexity and subtlety, especially when they warrant a repeat viewing to capture nuances that may be missed the first time through.  However, such films happen to also be fundamentally coherent.

Things look random in the film, because the characters were still trying to get into the mystery, but were killed so soon by it. I think it's a clever way to do sci-fi, but if you analize the pieces, you could get a glimpse of what was that for.

Wait a tick...are you, in actuality, Damon Lindelof?

[Magegg]

No, in fact I love films of rich complexity and subtlety, especially when they warrant a repeat viewing to capture nuances that may be missed the first time through.  However, such films happen to also be fundamentally coherent.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/f/f9/Hm4SP.PNG

There it goes your coherence. Already digested and served on a plate. You didn't had to think more. Then why are you still angry?

I could say exactly the same, but the poster was actually a kind of synopsis of what you saw in the movie. It helped me to visualize all that I didn't notice from the movie. And it puts it together and right. I have no problem with that, it's all coherent.

Why still refusing to see it? Why saying everything is random and nonsense, when it all comes from the movie itself? It just wasn't all appearent, but when you analize the way the Goo afected targets, you get the poster, and nothing else. No mumbo jumbo, simply what you saw in the movie.

Now you can make your own conclusions. And they are quite obvious, like the ones I put in my last post. It makes sense. There are still mysteries we don't know about, but it makes much sense.

Wait a tick...are you, in actuality, Damon Lindelof?

[Deuterium]

There it goes your coherence. Already digested and served on a plate. You didn't had to think more. Then why are you still angry?

I could say exactly the same, but the poster was actually a kind of synopsis of what you saw in the movie. It helped me to visualize all that I didn't notice from the movie. And it puts it together and right. I have no problem with that, it's all coherent.

Why still refusing to see it? Why saying everything is random and nonsense, when it all comes from the movie itself? It just wasn't all appearent, but when you analize the way the Goo afected targets, you get the poster, and nothing else. No mumbo jumbo, simply what you saw in the movie.

Now you can make your own conclusions. And they are quite obvious, like the ones I put in my last post. It makes sense. There are still mysteries we don't know about, but it makes much sense.

Hi Magegg,

We are just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.

For me, that poster is a "poster-child" for everything that is wrong with the film.  Firstly, I very much doubt that it existed prior to, or even during production.  I mean, I freely admit I could be wrong, but this looks like material conjured up, ex post facto, in order to try to reconcile plot holes and/or implausibilities in the original film.

I mean, really...any (magical) substance that has the capability to completely alter and mutate a human being's entire body, would operate at a cellular / molecular DNA level...in which case it makes absolutely no sense why it would matter (and have radically different effects) depending on if it were inhaled or injested.  It is conceivable that one method of delivery of such a hypothetical substance might get things moving faster than the other, but it makes absolutely no sense that the ultimate effects would be different.

The "Black Goo" is simply an ill-conceived (IMHO) plot device to try to advance the story for point "A" to point "B".

If I recall, Lindelof likes these convenient short-cuts, as opposed to putting actual thought, or God forbid, plausible science, into his work.  Does anyone remember the black "Smoke Monster" from L.O.S.T. ??

[Magegg]

I mean, really...any (magical) substance that has the capability to completely alter and mutate a human being's entire body, would operate at a cellular / molecular DNA level...in which case it makes absolutely no sense why it would matter (and have radically different effects) depending on if it were inhaled or injested.  It is conceivable that one method of delivery of such a hypothetical substance might get things moving faster than the other, but it makes absolutely no sense that the ultimate effects would be different.

Yes I agree with that. But maybe the "breathing" is also the total sign of a different and evolutively far set of functions for other beings.

I mean, the xenomorph is supposed to be ancient, almost sacred, it doesn't have to breath; that would make it an entirely different being, meaning even an 'older' generation of Life forms.
There even could be a biblical/mythological context since Bible says God created humans, then blew and gave them breath and life.

While humans and engineers are clearly breathing, possibly mammal life forms. Way to go from those ancient beings to the human now. So, the breathing is a system the Black Goo couldn't be more far away, then that's the reason why it fails (creates mutations) when being administered that way.

OK, this is going too far fetched maybe, and I agree the different ways of contagion and effects are plot device to show a variety of creatures and scenes, but it still manages to harvest an inner consistency, even if scientifically could be wrong/make no sense or be too far-fetched.

[180924609]

Holloway was killed by the black goo. He ingested it exactly the same way the Engineer did. And he died exactly the same way the Engineer died. There you go.

That's not strictly true is it? Holloway was burnt to death by Vickers. We don't really know what was happening to him or what his ultimate fate would have been.

Remember the tiny wriggling tentacle coming out of Holloway's eye? That doesn't look like his body is completely disintegrating to me. And he beget a completely NEW life form by 'impregnating' Elizabeth Shaw.

Also, the worms in the Ampule Room were literally swimming in the stuff! They must have absorbed the black-goo in every which way possible so that dispels all that inhalation/ingestion nonsense from the viral poster.

----

Some other script based evidence to support the transformation (as opposed to total disintegration) theory:

Excerpt from Paradise (Lindelof), p73:

Holloway SCREAMS -- Goes to his KNEES. – HE'S TRANSFORMING --
His SUIT is starting to TEAR -- JESUS, IT'S LIKE HE'S
GROWING

Excerpt from Paradise (Lindelof), p48:

David OPENS THE CABINET, revealing the contents INSIDE --
THE FOUR AMPULES he recovered from the pyramid. David
carefully removes one. It is both ANCIENT and otherworldly.
Clear liquid inside. A WAX TOP. And etched into it --
WRITING. David blinks -- Can he actually READ it? And now --
POP. He removes the top. Dips his finger into the liquid.
Pulls it back out... and now brings his fingertip very VERY
close to his eye as his PUPIL DILATES AND WE ZOOM INTO --
A SUB-MICROSCOPIC VIEW. Seeing as only a mechanical EYE
could SEE. And here, wedged into the VALLEYS of David's
fingerprint, is something very, very FAMILIAR --
It's TEEMING WITH DOUBLE HELIXES. DNA. Just like we saw in
the beginning

Hypothesis: The black-goo is 'engineered liquid-life' that can somehow attach itself to existing life and adapt it in favour of its new matrix. (LOL)


Excerpt from Alien: Engineers (Spaihts), p55-56

FIFIELD
Fifield to Magellan. Come on, come on.
Anybody, seriously! God damn it!

Scarabs flit through the darkness around him. They alight on
his shoulders. Crawl over his visor. Obscuring his vision.

FIFIELD (CONT'D)
Get off!
He swats at his visor, killing some. The crushed insects
produce acid that eats into the plexiglass in seconds.

He twists, craning with his flashlight to inspect himself.
Brushes scarabs away right and left.

Acid opens a hole in his visor. Scarabs are inside. Buzzing
around his head. Fifield freaks out, clawing at his helmet.
A scarab bites his cheek.

FLASH ON:
The microscopic world - as strange DNA invades Fifield's
bloodstream. Virulent strands of protein attack the native
DNA, transforming...

FIFIELD
As his pupils dilate, breath hissing into his nostrils. His
expanding body stiffens as if shocked by a powerful electric
current. He screams. Falls, convulsing.

Hypothesis: In Spaiht's draft, Fifield is definitely undergoing the same 'upgrade effect' that the primitive woman experienced in the opening scene on primitive Earth.

[Blacklabel]

Yep. But when Fifield is "upgraded" in the Spaihts draft. He's given a different DNA cocktail than what the woman receives in the first sequence. (She gets Engineer DNA. Fifield receives Xenomorph dna i think.)

Lindelof's draft makes a mess of the black goo :/ although it seems to suggest that Holloway was in the early stages of transforming into whatever Fifield was becoming.

[Magegg]

That's not strictly true is it? Holloway was burnt to death by Vickers. We don't really know what was happening to him or what his ultimate fate would have been.

He was disintegrating, and he looked exactly like the Sacrifice Engineer in his final moments.

Remember the tiny wriggling tentacle coming out of Holloway's eye? That doesn't look like his body is completely disintegrating to me. And he beget a completely NEW life form by 'impregnating' Elizabeth Shaw.

That could be right too, but maybe only because he's a sexed being, while Engineers are supposed no longer to have a gender.

Also, the worms in the Ampule Room were literally swimming in the stuff! They must have absorbed the black-goo in every which way possible so that dispels all that inhalation/ingestion nonsense from the viral poster.

I know, but maybe they're lower kind of beings, or has to do something with their functions/breathing way, IIRC worms are supposed to breath through all his body, so there's confusion there.

Some other script based evidence
to support the transformation (as opposed to total disintegration) theory:

Might be, but only if you take the drafts and pre-scripts instead of the final product. Ridley had the final cut on it.

[180924609]

Yep. But when Fifield is "upgraded" in the Spaihts draft. He's given a different DNA cocktail than what the woman receives in the first sequence. (She gets Engineer DNA. Fifield receives Xenomorph dna i think.)

Lindelof's draft makes a mess of the black goo :/ although it seems to suggest that Holloway was in the early stages of transforming into whatever Fifield was becoming.

Exactly, @Blacklabel!

This is one of the reasons why I think Prometheus may actually be something worth praising [ignoring all of science history of course!]

Prometheus is NOT 'The Rock'

Spoiler

[close]

Prometheus is NOT 'War of the Worlds'

Prometheus will never be fully tangible.

Prometheus is about a race of superior beings that lace the comsos with forms of life - as they see fit.

In the Science Fictional world of Prometheus - there is nothing special or scared about life on Earth. What human beings chose to define as 'normality' is simply a single point of view.

It literally IS a HORROR movie for anybody with scientific knowledge.

----

In the Ampule/Giant-Head room (laboratory?) there is no guarantee that every one of those 'quad-vial packages' are the SAME. Many appear to be of a different size. Who said they were a WEAPON? - a human being did! (Janek)

Life on Earth was clearly about to be CHANGED circa 2000 years ago by something that was uncontrollable, even for the folks that engineered the change. Maybe something went badly wrong! Apple/Microsoft upgrades, anybody?!

[Blacklabel]

Small theory:

The black Goo is an agent that both draws DNA from and inserts DNA into creatures.

Example:

The engineer at the beginning drinks an "empty" form of the black goo. The goo eats up his body and spreads his DNA onto a dead planet, bringing life.

Holloway, the hammerpedes and Fifield are exposed to a "filled" version of the black goo. It already has the DNA of something else and attempts to transform them into an aproximation of that lifeform. My theory is that the black goo on LV-223 already had the DNA of a xenomorph and would be used as a weapon to transform the biosphere of an entire planet when dropped into it's water supply. Presumably, The Engineers used the black goo on a Xenomorph, killing him and harvesting his DNA, that was then meant to be used as a weapon.

I think this simplifies the events in the movie into a coherent whole. And it's based on the Spaihts draft, in wich the "scarabs" operated in a similar way. I have a feeling that it was Lindelof's idea to have the black goo to continue operating in this exact way.

Thoughts on this fanwank? 

[Deuterium]

Guys/Gals...I realize I do not speak for everyone (maybe no one...ducks for cover), but I am of the opinion that if it isn't in the official, released film, it doesn't count.

Look, if some key or critical information ended up on the cutting room floor...then that is the sole fault of the editor and director.

If the studio interfered, and forced the director to excise important, key information, then it is still the responsibility of Director.  In such a case, the Director has 3 possibilities:

1)  Cave in -- which still makes him/her responsible, however "unfair" (especially to a new and upcoming talent)

-- or --

2)  Push back and stand your ground -- which apparently Ridley did on his very first major motion picture ("Alien")

3)  Walk away, or refuse to have your "name" associated with the picture -- this has happened countless times in the history of cinema.

In the previous example, there is no evidence that any of this occurred.

If it didn't make if from one of the "draft" scripts, to the final, finished shooting script (as appears in the film), then it is the responsibility of a whole chain of people.

Finally, if key/critical information is contained in some viral marketing release, it most definitely doesn't count.

The film has to stand on it's own, completely independent of external resources and/or "ex post facto" buttressing and band-aids...including marketing info as well as director/writer post-release interviews and explanations.

IMHO, if any of this bullshit is required to make sense of the film, and/or explain (away) plot-holes, incoherent character decisions/behavior, etc....then what you have is a fundamental failure in story-telling, period.

Yes, it is fun to review draft screenplays, and speculate on "what-if" scenarios, if only because we all are hard core "fans".  But at the end of the day, you have to look at this from the eyes of a general audience, who only has information contained within the film, or from prior films.

[steviemac]

Even though im not trying to back up any of Lindelofs wishy washy story telling, I did actually try to say something along the same lines back when Prometheus came out at first, and a few folk were trying to shoot me down in flames as if what they were saying was fact.

How did they know the ship was heading to earth with balck goo to wipe us out
They didnt. Theyve been running about in a panicted state, theyve seen a few things and made a few big assumptions.
They might have been right, but they might not also. That was my point, the whole vagueness of the film doesnt really tell us one way or another. We can have our own opinion, and by the sound of things, thats what Lindelofs hoping for to wash over the open endedness of his story.

[ChrisPachi]

How did they know the ship was heading to earth with balck goo to wipe us out?

Because that is what the film tells us - it doesn't matter whether the characters were in a position to know any better. Also, this fact is presented by David - who is not human and was not running around in a panicked state - and further supported by the deliberate shot of the globe hovering over the navigation console.

This is one of the very few things that isn't left ambiguous.

[Deuterium]

This is one of the very few things that isn't left ambiguous.

When Lindelof wrote that specific scene, he may have been suffering from a temporary bout of lucidity.  It seems he quickly recovered   

[180924609]

Taking into account the xeno-like mutations displayed by the worms, Fifield and Holloway (at least his offspring), there is another intriguing possibility that satisfies Lindelof's statement about the Engineer's black goo mass deployment not necessarily being a weapon.


For some unknowable reason, 2000 years ago the engineers had decided that life on Earth as we know it had 'run its course'.

They were about to re-start life on Earth with a new form of biology, 'brewed' in the giant head room 'laboratory' on LV223. The murals say it all really.

Organic life with highly accelerated evolution and adaptability attributes. Perfect organisms.

So, rather than Earth being attacked by pre-existing Xeno eggs dropped from a Juggernaut bomber as Ridley had hinted at for years and Spaihts had explicitly written...

...Planet Earth was about to become Xeno Homeworld!