Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 23, 2012, 05:16:35 AM
Quote from: Capovin on Apr 23, 2012, 04:28:28 AM
Hmm did I say anywhere it was because of Aliens? No because I don't believe it was. I'm simply stating it's a POSSIBILITY, and there are enough things unexplained to warrant that. The burden of proof is not on me. But your rational of we just "happened" to follow the right path, irks me a little. There's such a massive amount of coincidences to have gotten us to the point we are now. If that doesn't make you scratch your head and ask "why" I don't know what to say. Just luck? It just happens? I'm sorry, not good enough. I guess being inquisitive is just my nature. I know how science hypothesizes our development, you missed the point, why did we "happen" to follow the path, why just us?
Capovin, contingency is an integral feature of Evolution via Natural Selection. Refer to my previous reply post #111. There is no goal or ultimate "direction" of Evolution towards developing organisms with greater intelligence, finally resulting in Homo sapiens. Wind the "tape of Life" back a few million years, and hit "replay", and it is entirely possible (perhaps even probable) that nothing remotely resembling human intelligence and consciousness would have arisen. The specific contingencies that were required, all along the process, are incalculable. Although not completely accurate, you could substitute the term "coincidence" for "contingency", here, without seriously affecting the argument. Alternatively, going back even further, if certain mass extinctions didn't occur, or any number of other contingencies...it is entirely possible that a "human" level of intelligence and consciousness might have arisen millions of years ago, in some other species.
Note that I am speaking exclusively on scientific terms, here. My personal Catholic beliefs add a much richer and deeper layer of nuance to this picture. However, religious faith and belief does not have a place in a purely scientific argument.
I see what youre saying, but I personally believe (and I will break out if the scientific argument guidlines here) things happen for a reason, I've seen evidence in my life of it both subtle and not so subtle at all, now you don't have to believe that, but I do, more than I believe anything else really, because it's not secondhand information, it's my own personal experience. And it goes to follow that I don't believe much in coincidence. However in regards to your post, I speculate that's possible, maybe another species did evolve to our intelligence and we just have no record, but so far in the here and now (which is all one can truly know) we are the only and forgive me if I'm curious about it and am not satisfied with the scientific explanation. Just as I'm not satisfied with the big bang theory (which is a whole other discussion) I am also curious as to how youve reconciled Catholicism with your strict adherence to these beliefs. I imagine there's a lot of "take what you want and leave the rest" involved or no?
And open maw
"The issue with the idea is that it tries to explain things that don't really need another explanation. Like where the pyramids came from, or how we developed speech, or civilization. It totally ignores and rejects all the hard work human beings have put in over the centuries, all the good fortune, and all the people who died trying to learn things from our very beginnings right on through to present day. I mean, it's quite literally based on bullshit and ignorance.
Did it ever occur to you that our design is the thing that makes us special? Our bodies have naturally evolved. We were the fortunate ones. Why is that hard to understand? One species had to be. It could just as easily be the apes evolving the better brain and the ability to stand up straight while we were locked in cages playing pictionary and drawing with crayons. Which, by the way? There's your answer. We're not that far from some of our neighbors. As I said earlier, things like the microchip, quantum physics, and landing a man on the moon almost seem like whims for us when you compare them to the basic concept of intelligence. Apes, Dolphins, other animals on this planet do in fact have quite substantial intelligence. They're limited by how they've evolved. They are built to do other things."
So any alternatives to our established history comes out of "bullshit and ignorance" you take for example the pyramids. We have found the quarries, the tools used to make them but even still you act like we know exactly how we built the pyramids, when we straight up don't. Like I said I'm not trying to prove Aliens did it, I'm just simply pointing out, if there were in fact aliens visiting earth, then it's POSSIBLE they helped out.
In fact let's just assume for a minute (purely hypothetical) that aliens do exist, and have visited us in the past. Now the question is, did they interact or not interact with us? They could just as easily been observers and had absolutely no interaction with us, but if I knew Aliens did exist and visited us in the past I would be more inclined to believe it was a possibility that they helped us out.
And to your next question "did it ever occur to you it was our design" first off, i dont like your tone, its a bit patronizing, secondly yes of course, isn't that what this is all about? How exactly did we become that "design", just through the process of evolution it was bound to happen? Or we are just very lucky? Coincidence? This is not a question out of ignorance i simply do not think "evolution and a shitload of coincidences" is an all encompassing satisfactory explanation. Like I said above I don't buy that. You may, I don't. But like I said much earlier on no one will convince each other of anything in this thread. You want to hold on to your beliefs so badly. I don't even believe AA "theory", I'm just stating it's a possibility.
And here "The issue with the idea is that it tries to explain things that don't really need another explanation." if we took everything at face value we would never progress, you're basically saying "close the book on that one, no room for other explanations anymore" no, that humans themselves did all these things is the most likely situation given our current knowledge but let's say twenty years from now we find a flying saucer buried 200 feet below the sphinx, are you going to say "I still think humans did it all" or are you going to change your beliefs. Fact is, we make new discoveries every day, I'm not saying that's gonna happen but it is a possibility. You don't know what our future discoveries might be, and we definitely haven't discovered everything there is to discover. It's a possibility, and a far more probable one than the earth being made of pudding or breathing nails. Give it a rest.
