Bishop in Alien 3 - Human or Android?

[Uncanny Antman]

- Why doesn't Bishop use his android reflexes to stop ...

What 'android reflexes'?

We have one example of Bishop being able to perform the knife trick at superhuman speeds, but plenty of examples of droids reacting at human capacity.  Plus, the knife trick is neat, but not proof that he has good reflexes.  It's a programmable motion, and one that he demonstrably can't adapt to right away when new variables are introduced.  (By putting Hudson's hand under his own, he makes a mistake for the first time.)

But Ash doesn't stop a cylinder clangin' him in the head, Bishop fails to notice the Queen about to impale him, and Call stands still and gets gut-shot.  She also has a very lackadaisical approach to a chestburster birthing right in front of her.



Don't mistake this for "Bishop II is a droid" kinda talk...just focusing on a specific point is all.  

[That Yellow Alien]

Well, whatever the case, this thread is about whether or not Bishop 2 is human or an android. It is fact that he is intended to be human in A3. That should be that, but we're going to keep getting people who claim he is an android, solely because they saw AVP. Was this a huge debate before AVP? I have always thought he was human, ever since I first saw Alien 3 as a kid.

[Uncanny Antman]

Was this a huge debate before AVP? I have always thought he was human, ever since I first saw Alien 3 as a kid.

I don't know about huge, but the debate dates back to when Alien 3 was first released.  AvP simply fanned the flames, so to speak.

[SM]

What 'android reflexes'?

Ash ripping out a clump of Ripley's hair?

Besides I personally consider the knife trick to be an example of android reflexes - it's certainly nothing a human could do, ergo...  If Ash and Bishop could move that quickly, then why didn't the supposed Bishop android on Fiorina reach out and stop Ripley closing the gate.  He was within arms reach.

As for Ash getting clonked on the head - slightly different in that Aaron shouts out "f**king android!' as he's hoiking the wrench and Bishop doesn't even react to protect himself.  Ash was concentrating on choking Ripley and had no warning that Parker was going to brain him.

Call's a slightly different kettle of fish.  She possibly is programmed differently, or at least has tried to pass for human so long in order to hide, that she can't quickly switch back into Superhuman Synth Mode (TM).  She needs time to dial down her Self Loathing Overdrive (TM).

[Uncanny Antman]

Ash ripping out a clump of Ripley's hair?

Aww man, that ain't no 'droid magic, and you know it. 

Besides I personally consider the knife trick to be an example of android reflexes

I do consider it an example of android speed.  It's just an oddity that there are no other concrete instances of advanced reaction time anywhere else in the four films.

Aaron shouts out "f**king android!' as he's hoiking the wrench and Bishop doesn't even react to protect himself.

You don't need super reflexes to protect yourself from that kind of obvious attack.  Maybe the real argument should be, "Bishop II - Human or Oblivious?" 

She possibly is programmed differently, or at least has tried to pass for human so long in order to hide, that she can't quickly switch back into Superhuman Synth Mode (TM)

You've shot down much less flimsy arguments than that.

[Kimarhi]

Ash manhandles a much bigger parker with one hand when he's trying to seperate him from Ripley.

I think the thing is they weren't made for combat, and thus they aren't super effective combat ready personnel.

[Cellien]

Why don't people just forget the fact that Weyland and Bishop 2 look alike. No where in AVP is it stated that Weyland is the basis of the Bishop android. Sure Anderson says it, but like always, there is no point to the ideas he makes because they go nowhere. However, it is stated in A3 that Michael Bishop is the creator of the android. I take that as fact. Face it, Weyland and Bishop 2 don't have to have any connection if you don't want them to. Just say they are 2 different characters from 2 different time lines who happen to be played by the same actor. Kinda like how Bill Paxton played 2 different characters from 2 different time lines. They are not the same, they don't have to be related at all. Weyland was the founder of the Weyland Corporation and Michael Bishop was the designer of the Bishop android. Forget all the bullshit cloning theories and all that crap. All we know is that Bishop 2 is supposed to be human, AVP came along, screwed everything up, you make the connections that you want to, as long as they are not completely stupid (cloning).

So you can draw your own conclusions since facts are fuzzy.. You can make the link, or you can choose to make up a theory based on what two different filmmakers have said.  This is why this is a dumb argument and anyone that thinks they know the definitive answer should just cool down with their obsessive posting on how they think their answer is the only opinion when clearly fans are divided, which makes it obvious there's plenty to question.

[maledoro]

So you can draw your own conclusions since facts are fuzzy.. You can make the link, or you can choose to make up a theory based on what two different filmmakers have said.

Here's where the fuzziness clears: one of the filmmakers created the character in question.

This is why this is a dumb argument and anyone that thinks they know the definitive answer should just cool down with their obsessive posting on what they think the answer is.

Anyone who can't bring themselves to listen to what the creators of the character had said and have to go out of their way to prove something that isn't there shouldn't have started in the first place.

[Ficodemus]

Ok gotta go back a bit...

So humans can't get their ear torn off? So I guess that means if my ear gets torn, I'm an android.

I just mentioned by a side note that his ear torn off. I was not basing my argument on torn off ear. But I can do that now. Firstly he doesn't seem to suffer any kind of pain, from sewered off ear. Secondly if your ear would be torn off, there would be nice flow of blood coming out. Android doesn't need blood. So it doesn't have vains in it's head, hence no blood or that white whatever it is coming out. And even if it has, I'm pretty sure he has a metal skull. If that's the case, why would the "vains" be outside of skull? Surely it would be better to place them inside a metal skull, to add some protection.

Also going back for the ear, it stays still after being half torn away. If it would be attached to his head with skin, it would wave, since skin is somewhat flexible. However androids are covered with something that looks like skin, but ain't skin in reality, to make them feel more like they would be humans. Like prosthesis have.

Hope you got it clear cause I don't wanna write something so nerdy anymore.

Do you know why Aaron is called "85"?

So because his IQ is lower than normal he just came up in his mind: "Hey that guy is an android" and wasn't right. How come he would've just made an assumption that bishop 2 was an android? Obviously he knew it was an android.

Why bother sending a droid that looks like Bishop to deceive her when they can just send the real guy? The android theory makes no logical sense. It just complicates the plot even further.

Your thinking is what makes things complicated. The company never did anything that seemed too logical. If they would've been logical they wouldn't have sended out guy who Ripley definitely would consider as an android, hence untrustworthy. And there are couple of examples out there why company isn't acting logically.

- Why does the advance model android 200 years later STILL have white blood?  Surely if Call was on the lam and she was so advanced so could've given herself red blood - yet she didn't.

Now I'll make an assumption about this "android blood". First of all it ain't blood. It's hydraulic fluid. That's how they're able to move. Or can anyone tell me how they're able to move without hydraulics? Also it might be used like oil in car engine, to clean and grease them. Maybe even cool them. Ok you could make oil that looks like blood. Honestly why the f**k???

[That Yellow Alien]

Ok gotta go back a bit...

So humans can't get their ear torn off? So I guess that means if my ear gets torn, I'm an android.

I just mentioned by a side note that his ear torn off. I was not basing my argument on torn off ear. But I can do that now. Firstly he doesn't seem to suffer any kind of pain, from sewered off ear. Secondly if your ear would be torn off, there would be nice flow of blood coming out. Android doesn't need blood. So it doesn't have vains in it's head, hence no blood or that white whatever it is coming out. And even if it has, I'm pretty sure he has a metal skull. If that's the case, why would the "vains" be outside of skull? Surely it would be better to place them inside a metal skull, to add some protection.

http://www.dailymotion.com/branman887/video/4982524

Flow of blood-check
Pain-check

This debate is stupid. How many times does someone have to say it? The script and the film makers said that he is human. Therefor he is. That is proof. Maybe they didn't emphasize that enough, but he is still human.

[SM]

I do consider it an example of android speed.  It's just an oddity that there are no other concrete instances of advanced reaction time anywhere else in the four films.

When is there a chance for androids to display it?  The knife trick was perfect opportunity.

You've shot down much less flimsy arguments than that.

Thought the liberal use of (TM) was an obvious enough giveaway that it was deliberately flimsy.

Firstly he doesn't seem to suffer any kind of pain

Yes he does.

Do you know why Aaron is called "85"?

So logically, anyone who thinks he's android like Aaron did also has an IQ of....

[maledoro]

I just mentioned by a side note that his ear torn off. I was not basing my argument on torn off ear. But I can do that now. Firstly he doesn't seem to suffer any kind of pain, from sewered off ear.

His ear was still pretty much attached, and he did show pain.
http://www.dailymotion.com/branman887/video/4982524

Secondly if your ear would be torn off, there would be nice flow of blood coming out.

Not if a subdural hematoma were involved.

Android doesn't need blood. So it doesn't have vains in it's head, hence no blood or that white whatever it is coming out.

But Bishop's creator needs blood and had bled out.

And even if it has, I'm pretty sure he has a metal skull.

Ash didn't, and there was nothing that indicated that Bishop did.

If that's the case, why would the "vains" be outside of skull? Surely it would be better to place them inside a metal skull, to add some protection.

With the exception of arthropods (and maybe some other creatures),with most creatures the cranial veins are on the exterior of their skulls.

Also going back for the ear, it stays still after being half torn away. If it would be attached to his head with skin, it would wave, since skin is somewhat flexible. However androids are covered with something that looks like skin, but ain't skin in reality, to make them feel more like they would be humans. Like prosthesis have.

The pinnae (or, outer ears) are made of cartilage, which is a connective tissue that is tougher than skin.

Hope you got it clear cause I don't wanna write something so nerdy anymore.

Although I am an atheist, I will pray for you to achieve clarity.

So because his IQ is lower than normal he just came up in his mind: "Hey that guy is an android" and wasn't right. How come he would've just made an assumption that bishop 2 was an android? Obviously he knew it was an android.

He didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. He only made his mind up when others led him.

Your thinking is what makes things complicated. The company never did anything that seemed too logical. If they would've been logical they wouldn't have sended out guy who Ripley definitely would consider as an android, hence untrustworthy. And there are couple of examples out there why company isn't acting logically.

The only times that the Company had acted illogically is on matters that directly involved the alien. If the Company were as bad as you think they were, they wouldn't have lasted as long as they had.

[SM]

Ash didn't, and there was nothing that indicated that Bishop did.

Didn't Johner refer to Call as "plastic"?  I never got the impression Bishop was metal from the remains Ripley spoke to,

[Uncanny Antman]

When is there a chance for androids to display it?  The knife trick was perfect opportunity.

But why display it there if not to set it up for something else?  Without any further use, it shows it was only really there for comedic effect, and to shortcut us to the revelation that Bishop is a droid.

If we discount moments when the android in question is 'undercover' there still leaves moments like Bishop being speared by the Queen, Call's reaction to Purvis' chestburster, Ripley's fall into the viper pit not being potentially arrested by a quick-acting Call, Call being snagged 'round the throat by the Newborn...

I guess they're mostly Call stuff, but Bishop spends so much of Aliens 'somewhere else' 

Thought the liberal use of (TM) was an obvious enough giveaway that it was deliberately flimsy.

It was, I was just making fun.

The whole thing reminds me of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan blurring away from the droidekas during Phantom Menace...speed which is never seen again anywhere in the films, even though it would have come in super handy. 

[SM]

speed which is never seen again anywhere in the films

Luke jumping out of the carbon freeezing pit.

(To the tune of Yakity Sax)