[SPOILERS] So Covenant confirms that AvP and AvPR are not canon films.

[Marcus9000]

I like to think of AvP crossover films as existing in a parallel universe. Somewhere!

Ridley has said he was going to just do his own thing with Prometheus, and he isn't going to care what he does to AvP.

I enjoyed the first AvP with all of its At the Mountains of Madness influences etc but Requiem was a very violent and sick film. Not an enjoyable experience at all.

I am also sure that in the future we will have another AvP movie, possibly once Ridley has finished his prequels and after somebody has made one or two movies in that universe.


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[Snake]

AVPR will never ever be canon. It was shockingly bad and an complete insult to alien and predator-fans alike.

[Russ840]

The design PROVE they are from the same race

How?

Different species would not be so similar in tech, ship exterior and interior design.

Why not?

The differences are minimal and surely do not show they are from different species as you claim...

That's your interpretation and you're welcome to it.

Because that is how reality, logic and common sense work... Two different interstellar species would not have such similar ships design interior, exterior,, etc... I cannot believe I am wasting time explaining the obvious... No two species are alike for many, many reasons... And this is no interpretation, it is a statement of fact, of science... That is like saying there is another human race out there in space... The basic darwinian laws of evolution negate it... I cannot believe I am actually having to state the obvious...😂

No, they are not identical. The Juggernaut is round-shaped, so it can roll - the Derelict is shaped like a "U".



They are similar, but they are not the same.

Also Giger worked in 'Prometheus' (he designed the mural).
Even if he didn't have Giger around, there are countless artists who are capable of closely copying Giger's style (and have done so in Alien comic books and video games), and yet Prometheus' designs look distinctly different from what we saw in 'Alien'.
As I said, if Ridley Scott wanted to make it identical to 'Alien', he absolutely could have done so - and yet he chose not to.

There's no way making the Engineers the same height as the Space Jockey (and same proportions, don't forget about that) would have been "too expensive" - the entire Lord of the Rings and Hobbit trilogies did it constantly when putting the Hobbits near other characters.

Again, if Ridley Scott had wanted to make the Engineers as big as the Space Jockey, he absolutely could have done it.

The design PROVE they are from the same race, so your first claim has been debunked by yourself... And again, unless Ridley wanted to spend money on VFX for the size, he coulda, but FOX would be breathing down his neck... And again, Ridley made the Engineers much taller than humans, proof that he was trying to approach their size to the SpaceJockeys... Your theory has no legs... They wear the same helmets, the ships have the same pilot chamber, same pilot chair... They are the same species... Different species would not be so similar in tech, ship exterior and interior design... The differences are minimal and surely do not show they are from different species as you claim...

Also, did you see the sheer size of the SpaceJockey...!? Forced perspective would definitely not be enough... And for what Ridley had the Engineer do, it would not work... Ergo, VFX...

How is his first comment debunked by himself? Also. How can "Scientifically" the queen not come later?  Explain please

As far as i am concerned, the queen can be an evolution a generation down. I mean. Its not a stretch. Going by Covenant, the Xenos creation has its origins in the Black goo, which is a mutagen. As stated. It does a large variety of stuff so why not speed up the evolution of the Xeno's

Very simple: in nature, no species evolves in mere decades nor does an egg exist without an egg layer... ALIENS stated the eggs had been laid by an egg layer, a Queen... And the black goo is a scientific joke, with an MO all over the place... That is like saying Ebola or any other virus would mutate some, kill and paralyze others, even within the same species... We had a pile of Engineers with chestbursters, a decapitated Engineer dying from an airborne pathogen, clearly indicating that there weren't only black goo vases but also probably eggs there and the PROMETHEUS mural proves it by showing facehuggers impregnating Engineers much like the ALIEN mural did... So, I ask again, which was firsts, the egg or the chicken...? And lazily written deus ex machina ploys like the black goo are hardly evidence of anything but Ridley contradicting himself even within his own movies... He shows facehuggers in one movie and in the sequel, contradicts it right off the gate...

Prometheus retconned Weyland Corp. That was enough to confirm AVP as not canon. But I find it amusing that people believed they could co-exist and forced them together by inventing elements such as Guy Pierce being Charles Bishop's son etc. Now instead we have the David created/recreated the Alien argument which is essentially the same thing.

Not really... Peter Weyland may well just be a descendant of Charles Bishop Weyland... Also, we see the genesis of Yutani at the end of AVPR, but since Peter Weyland and his only daughter died on LV-223, there is a power vaccuum in Weyland Corp, probably facilitating the purchase of it by the Yutani corporation... None negates the existence of the other... And since the movies, the CANON, does not negate it, yes, AVP and AVPR are still canon unless specifically stated otherwise either by FOX execs or ulterior movies..which has not been the case SO FAR....

Quite simple, nothing in nature was created from an alien biological weapon so id say you are wrong.

[YutaniDitch]

Quite simple, nothing in nature was created from an alien biological weapon so id say you are wrong.

Wrong... Basic laws of physics, chemistry, logic, all apply... This is SCIENCE-fiction... And David had no gene splicing equipment in his cave nor any equipment for genetic experimentation... And where did his expertise in genetics come from...? Certainly not from Weyland's programming... Being an MD and a geneticist are two very different things... And he would contaminate the hell outta it's samples in that disgusting environment... Nothing in this movie makes sense, from the Covenant crew MO to David MO and motivations, David which would have been terminated by Weyland the moment he gave him that cocky response... Building an AI that is defiant is ALWAYS recipe for disaster... And his grinning, and likes are so off-character I never really liked him/it... And being an android, his motivations are laughable... And the Walter character made this far more visible... An obsessive-compulsive, genocidal android... Now I have truly seen it all...

[Predaker]

COVENANT denies the existence of a ... Queen

No it doesn't. Covenant actually explains why queens exist.

[YutaniDitch]

COVENANT denies the existence of a ... Queen

No it doesn't. Covenant actually explains why queens exist.

Really? How so?

[Evanus]

COVENANT denies the existence of a ... Queen

No it doesn't. Covenant actually explains why queens exist.

Really? How so?

The wasp.

[Russ840]

Quite simple, nothing in nature was created from an alien biological weapon so id say you are wrong.

Wrong... Basic laws of physics, chemistry, logic, all apply... This is SCIENCE-fiction... And David had no gene splicing equipment in his cave nor any equipment for genetic experimentation... And where did his expertise in genetics come from...? Certainly not from Weyland's programming... Being an MD and a geneticist are two very different things... And he would contaminate the hell outta it's samples in that disgusting environment... Nothing in this movie makes sense, from the Covenant crew MO to David MO and motivations, David which would have been terminated by Weyland the moment he gave him that cocky response... Building an AI that is defiant is ALWAYS recipe for disaster... And his grinning, and likes are so off-character I never really liked him/it... And being an android, his motivations are laughable... And the Walter character made this far more visible... An obsessive-compulsive, genocidal android... Now I have truly seen it all...

Dude. You really are hard work.  Like you say. Its science fiction. Anything can happen. Since when has gene splicing been anything to do with the black goo ?

I give up though. Ill not be continuing this line of discussion with you.

[YutaniDitch]

COVENANT denies the existence of a ... Queen

No it doesn't. Covenant actually explains why queens exist.

Really? How so?

The wasp.

Must be an alien wasp (yeah, the odds of that happening is zero) because Earth wasps do not have Queens... Look it up...

Quite simple, nothing in nature was created from an alien biological weapon so id say you are wrong.

Wrong... Basic laws of physics, chemistry, logic, all apply... This is SCIENCE-fiction... And David had no gene splicing equipment in his cave nor any equipment for genetic experimentation... And where did his expertise in genetics come from...? Certainly not from Weyland's programming... Being an MD and a geneticist are two very different things... And he would contaminate the hell outta it's samples in that disgusting environment... Nothing in this movie makes sense, from the Covenant crew MO to David MO and motivations, David which would have been terminated by Weyland the moment he gave him that cocky response... Building an AI that is defiant is ALWAYS recipe for disaster... And his grinning, and likes are so off-character I never really liked him/it... And being an android, his motivations are laughable... And the Walter character made this far more visible... An obsessive-compulsive, genocidal android... Now I have truly seen it all...

Dude. You really are hard work.  Like you say. Its science fiction. Anything can happen. Since when has gene splicing been anything to do with the black goo ?

I give up though. Ill not be continuing this line of discussion with you.

So where's the SCIENCE...? No equipment, no sanitary conditions to perform such precise tasks, no knowledge to do so, just written on the fly without any care... And in order to 'manipulate' the black goo, David would need microscopes and other equipment to do it... Where are they in that mess of a cave of his? Trick question, he couldn't have any because he arrived there in an alien spaceship... Like I said, Deus ex Machina... We just have  to assume he has microscopic vision then... 😂👍🏻

[TheBATMAN]

I love reading all the arguments about this. The fact is at this point, nothing in Prometheus or Covenant excludes AVP and AVPR from continuity. Nothing. Nothing says definitively that there was no Weyland Corp or Charles Bishop Weyland before Peter. Nothing says there was no Xenomorph before Covenant. Nothing. You can certainly interpret what is said on screen how you like based on what you choose to believe. You can certainly take the words of Scott to be gospel based on what you choose to believe. However, until something is definitely stated on screen without ambiguity, these things are still open to be connected even if you personally don't like them or count them in your own private cannon.

It doesn't have to. The intention was clear - as is the intention with Covenant to have David create the Alien. Some don't like that revelation so they invent things to suggest David was re-creating the alien, just like those who liked AVP invent a way for Charles and Peter to co-exist. That is fanon because in both cases because it goes against the clear intentions of the writer. Sure something might change in a future movie to mix it all up again. But as it stands right now, Charles Bishop Weyland doesn't exist and the xenomorph was created by David. It's as black and white as that.

[Predaker]

COVENANT denies the existence of a ... Queen

No it doesn't. Covenant actually explains why queens exist.

Really? How so?

The wasp.

Must be an alien wasp (yeah, the odds of that happening is zero) because Earth wasps do not have Queens... Look it up...

Good suggestion. I found this.

The most commonly known wasps, such as yellow jackets and hornets, are in the family Vespidae and are eusocial, living together in a nest with an egg-laying queen and non-reproducing workers.

[Russ840]

Lol

[Le Celticant]

COVENANT denies the existence of a ... Queen

No it doesn't. Covenant actually explains why queens exist.

Really? How so?

The wasp.

Must be an alien wasp (yeah, the odds of that happening is zero) because Earth wasps do not have Queens... Look it up...

Queen Wasp

[YutaniDitch]

COVENANT denies the existence of a ... Queen

No it doesn't. Covenant actually explains why queens exist.

Really? How so?

The wasp.

Must be an alien wasp (yeah, the odds of that happening is zero) because Earth wasps do not have Queens... Look it up...

Queen Wasp

My bad...I read that same Wikipedia entry and missed that completely... Odd... I seriously will have to watch the movie again... That part completely eluded me... 🤔

[klesk4ever]

Do we really have to push our favorite version of cannon down each others throat to feel better about the whole thing?

Simply make your own version of cannon that suits.

I've been saying this for a good while now.

Canon is not an individual choice, it is what has been established as OFFICIAL by the movies... So, no fan chooses what is canonical or not, that is just a ridiculous proposition... The movies set the canon, not the fans...

Nope. It is up to the owner of the franchise to establish a OFFICIAL canon. There is no system in place where movies, comics or novels should have greater weight at establishing OFFICIAL canon, there is no system where certain director or writer has the power to establish OFFICIAL canon...

In short since Fox didn't establish official canon Aliens, AvP and Predators do not have official canon/canons.

And while fans cannot establish official canons, they sure as heck can establish their own canons to their liking.

Xenopedia has established it's own system for establishing what is cannon and what is not, and it had established Xenopedia canon.
I had established my own system for establishing what is canon and what is not and I had established klesk canon.
You may establish your own system for what is canon, and you can establish YutaniDitch canon.

Trying to argue which one of those canons is "right"... makes no sense at all.

The design PROVE they are from the same race, so your first claim has been debunked by yourself.

Engineer ship is a great example. Is the ship on LV-426 same ship as Juggernaut?

They could be the same ships. The ship on LV-426 is a bit different, but that could be explained by different teams making models/CGI. After all Aliens in Alien, Aliens, AvP are a bit different, yet they are all Aliens.They are different because different studios made them.

They could also be different ships. Even if they did look 100% the same, well 6 battleships of the same class also look the same. So they could be two different ships of the same class.

The design proves that they were built using the same technology. Using the same technology and blueprints whites, blacks and asians can built three different ships of the same class. They can built it at different times, at different places. And yet all three can also be built at the same place at the same time.

As for the age of the Space Jockey corpse, the temperature on that planet is freezing. Frozen corpses do not decompose. The age of the death is unknown.

To sum things up, it is possible that it is the same ship, and it is also possible they are different ships. Cannons in which those things are the same and cannons in which they are not the same are possible.