Am I alone ?

[OpenMaw]

Which idea?

See, you still don't get it. That's how brilliant it is, you don't even know what it is.

[Scorpio]

The spacesuit idea.

O Bannon originally meant it to be a skeleton, this is true.

O Bannon's original idea for the alien was this:

[OpenMaw]

No. That was Ron Cobb's take on the Alien.

O'Bannon always had Giger in his mind for the Alien.

[GreybackElder]

My dislike of Covenant or Prometheus is not because I don't understand the movies. I simply prefer the original films. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of aspects in both movies that I love.  Visually they are grandiose and stunning. I think David's character is at least interesting.
Honestly I found it difficult to care about the characters.  Like mentioned previously the are so dumb in some moments that it suspends the disbelief of the movie itself. Why would a scientist remove his helmet on an alien world? Why would a navigator get lost in a ship that he just mapped out? A biologist approach a clearly aggressive hammerpede like it was some pet cat?Or not wear a suit in an Alien environment? Its simply to get characters in traps so they can be killed off like some B-slasher flick. 
Also Covenant Established the origin of the xeno as Davids science project(the book explains that he borrowed the design). Nevertheless I just prefer the xeno to be an ancient horror found only in the deepest reaches of space and not something created 10 or 20 years before the events of Alien.

[Xenomrph]

The spacesuit idea.

O Bannon originally meant it to be a skeleton, this is true.

O Bannon's original idea for the alien was this:

There's a huge difference between "it's a biomechanical space suit, with another being inside" and "the being itself is biomechanical, and through this its very body acts as a spacesuit". As mentioned, Giger intended the Space Jockey to be a singular organism, the body and the chair fused and inseparable. If you're as married to Giger's "vision" as you claim, then Prometheus' spacesuit idea is a pretty strong divergence from it.

People don't dislike the spacesuit/Engineer idea because they're closed-minded and don't like new ideas, people don't like it because it drastically undermines a major component of what made 'Alien' scary and interesting.
I like the Engineer idea and how it relates to humanity (and humanity's relationship with "god"/religion, seeking their creator, etc), I think it's an interesting topic. I just don't like it at the expense of 'Alien'.

Also Covenant Established the origin of the xeno as Davids science project(the book explains that he borrowed the design). Nevertheless I just prefer the xeno to be an ancient horror found only in the deepest reaches of space and not something created 10 or 20 years before the events of Alien.

Also this. A story about an android creating new life (and that life being horrific and dangerous) and the themes of godhood that stem from that are a legit interesting topic, but not when it's f**king up the Alien as a creature and undermining the scarier and more interesting thematic elements from 'Alien'.

[Scorpio]

I love how people claim to know Giger's intentions.  He was a surrealist.  His work is open to interpretation.  That's why you can't find any quote from Giger, because he wouldn't say what it is.

But if Ridley Scott, the director of Alien and who worked closely with Giger, says it is a spacesuit then that's fine by me.  It doesn't undermine the original Alien at all.  The idea of it being just a skeleton would undermine it.  We still don't even know what it is, it's more than just a spacesuit.  It's some kind of strange alien technology.

I am glad they didn't go the route of alien monster because that would have been generic and boring.  Thank god fanboys have no say in these movies or we would just get dull rehashed ideas.

[tleilaxu]

I love how people claim to know Giger's intentions.  He was a surrealist.  His work is open to interpretation.  That's why you can't find any quote from Giger, because he wouldn't say what it is.

Right. Interpreting the Space Jockey to be something based on off the cuff/behind the scenes comments is just that, interpretation. Ultimately it is what we are shown in the movie we have to take as a starting point, and the only thing we see is a strange humanoid-thing that looks fused to its chair.

I am glad they didn't go the route of alien monster because that would have been generic and boring.  Thank god fanboys have no say in these movies or we would just get dull rehashed ideas.

100% true. Fanboys have the worst ideas. I'd even hesitate to have myself decide if I had the chance, because I know there's a chance of the fanboy in me also doing something dull and generic.

[GreybackElder]

I love how people claim to know Giger's intentions.  He was a surrealist.  His work is open to interpretation.  That's why you can't find any quote from Giger, because he wouldn't say what it is.

But if Ridley Scott, the director of Alien and who worked closely with Giger, says it is a spacesuit then that's fine by me.  It doesn't undermine the original Alien at all.  The idea of it being just a skeleton would undermine it.  We still don't even know what it is, it's more than just a spacesuit.  It's some kind of strange alien technology.

I am glad they didn't go the route of alien monster because that would have been generic and boring.  Thank god fanboys have no say in these movies or we would just get dull rehashed ideas.

Wow, call me crazy but  isn't a guy in a space suit way more boring than some intelligent alien monster that we've never seen before? That's not a fanboyism. I'm not sure where you getting that from. A guy in a suit had been done far more times.

[Immortan Jonesy]

Giger himself designed the Engineers back in 1977:

This old concept art could be one of the many inspirations for the Engineer's design of Prometheus. Though I wonder if, from the point of view of Giger, this guy is one of the builders of the pyramid on LV-426 (another species of beings totally different from the Space Jockey).

Llike this early facehugger concept art, similar to the trilobite design as well as many other similarities between Prometheus and the early stages of Alien.

And yet, they mentioned some designs of Carlos Huante, Statue of Liberty and Michelangelo's David. But I guess this may be one of those weird "coincidences"...

However, I strongly doubt that the real Engineers were designed 40 years ago. 

There's a huge difference between "it's a biomechanical space suit, with another being inside" and "the being itself is biomechanical, and through this its very body acts as a spacesuit". As mentioned, Giger intended the Space Jockey to be a singular organism, the body and the chair fused and inseparable. If you're as married to Giger's "vision" as you claim, then Prometheus' spacesuit idea is a pretty strong divergence from it.

It would have been a little more interesting to see Engineers sharing some kind of symbiosis with their space suits, instead of being a mere cosplay.

But I prefer the real biomechanical organism anyway

[Scorpio]

Fire in the Sky did that before Independence Day



Independence Day just used a typical grey alien design inside a suit that very much reminds of Giger's alien.

Nobody could have imagined that the Space Jockey is actually a giant albino humanoid alien resembling a greek statue.

There have been dozens of fan art of a funky looking monster, nothing they could come up with would likely be better.  Somebody posted some a few pages back.  Looks cool as concept art but in a film would look ridiculous.  I giant creature that has a trunk hanging in front of its mouth.  It would be like something out of Doctor Who.

[SM]

"They have a new idea for the script that I should visualise. The skeleton of the astronaut, which used to be in the spacecraft, should now be placed in the landscape, blending in so that it can't be distinguished, and the crew wouldn't notice it until they see it on the recorder, back in the [Nostromo]. Like the film Blow-up, where the figure hidden in the bushes is only discovered once the negatives are developed."

"Another change. They want the skeleton of the alien Space Jockey to lie in the cockpit again."

Courtesy Valaquen.  Of course.

[Xenomrph]

I love how people claim to know Giger's intentions.  He was a surrealist.  His work is open to interpretation.  That's why you can't find any quote from Giger, because he wouldn't say what it is.

Dude, you were the one claiming to know Giger's intentions, and saying that his intention was the be-all end-all of whether it was a suit or a skeleton. Keep shifting them goalposts and hoping no one notices though, I guess.

Also there's a difference between "can't find a quote because it doesn't exist" and "can't find a quote because of lack of access to resources. Nice try, though.
And as stated, there *is* a quote from Giger saying that the Jockey and his chair are a fused, singular entity that can't be separated, so Prometheus' depiction does in fact undermine Giger's quoted "intent".

Also it's possible for a work to be open to interpretation while simultaneously knowing the creator's actual factual for-realsies no-foolin' intent. "Open to interpretation" doesn't mean "it's impossible to know what the creator was thinking", it means "what the creator was thinking doesn't matter". I'm a real strong proponent of the view that the creator's intent doesn't matter, but if for the sake of argument people want to discuss what that intent was, that's a whole separate discussion and one I'm fine with having. With regard to 'Alien', we actually do know the factual creator intent on whether the filmmakers meant it to be a skeleton or not back in 1979, and Ridley Scott himself acknowledges that 'Prometheus' is a divergence from that.

But if Ridley Scott, the director of Alien and who worked closely with Giger, says it is a spacesuit then that's fine by me.

Ridley Scott, who while working closely with Giger back in 1979, said it was a skeleton (per the quote I posted). Only 30 years later did Scott change his mind, independent of Giger. That's an important distinction.

It doesn't undermine the original Alien at all.  The idea of it being just a skeleton would undermine it.  We still don't even know what it is, it's more than just a spacesuit.  It's some kind of strange alien technology.

And that's where you're missing the point - you're seeing it merely as alien technology, a tool to be used. You're approaching it from the angle that the spacesuit is biomechanical and uses a fusion of biological and technological elements, but is still divorced from the wearer (as evidenced by the fact that the wearer can put the suit on and take it off at will). Technology, but with biological elements.
Giger, as quoted, drew it as a biomechanical organism, that the Space Jockey itself including the chair it was sitting in, were all one living, inseparable thing. Biology, with technological elements.

Thank god fanboys have no say in these movies or we would just get dull rehashed ideas.

I really like how you keep trying to pigeon-hole people with different opinions than yours to make it seem as if they're automatically inferior. They're "fanboys", or they "don't understand", etc. Corporal Hicks already made a lengthy post upthread about ways to better handle the Space Jockey concept than just "it's an albino dude in a suit".

Or, my personal favorite way to handle it would have been don't even touch the topic and have Prometheus be unrelated to 'Alien'. Let the Space Jockey be a weird and creepy mystery open to the audience's interpretation. No matter what way it gets "explained" is going to disappoint some group of people, and nothing useful is gained from explaining it anyway.

"They have a new idea for the script that I should visualise. The skeleton of the astronaut, which used to be in the spacecraft, should now be placed in the landscape, blending in so that it can't be distinguished, and the crew wouldn't notice it until they see it on the recorder, back in the [Nostromo]. Like the film Blow-up, where the figure hidden in the bushes is only discovered once the negatives are developed."

"Another change. They want the skeleton of the alien Space Jockey to lie in the cockpit again."

Courtesy Valaquen.  Of course.

Oh hey, some quotes from Giger where he says it's a skeleton.

The funniest part is I tried to give Scorpio an easy out by saying "it's both a skeleton and a spacesuit" and rolling with that compromise, and he seemed to get it, and then he kept pushing the issue anyway and now here we are.

But like he said, it's all open to interpretation.

[Scorpio]

I could mention that Giger's english is not the best, and particularly in 1978 but I might get accused of "shifting the goal posts" again.  There are no goal posts.  Real life is complex, there are no winners and losers.  Nothing is set in stone.

At one point the general idea was that it is a skeleton, I think we can all agree on that.  Or that crew comes across dead creature, not robot or statue, basically.

That doesn't mean that the new films 'betray' the concept.  They had many different ideas in the original Alien, some were used, some weren't.

I get it.  You don't like it, because 'reasons'.  That's fine, no problem.  We could discuss its merits or drawbacks forever. 

But the fact is it is no longer a skeleton, it's a spacesuit.  Prometheus and Alien Covenant firmly established this.  That's how it is.  Either deal with it or keep complaining.  I already gave my reasons why I think the idea works.

  Have a nice day.

[Xenomrph]

I could mention that Giger's english is not the best, and particularly in 1978 but I might get accused of "shifting the goal posts" again.  There are no goal posts.  Real life is complex, there are no winners and losers.  Nothing is set in stone.

At one point the general idea was that it is a skeleton, I think we can all agree on that.  Or that crew comes across dead creature, not robot or statue, basically.

That doesn't mean that the new films 'betray' the concept.  They had many different ideas in the original Alien, some were used, some weren't.

I get it.  You don't like it, because 'reasons'.  That's fine, no problem.  We could discuss its merits or drawbacks forever.

That's a whole lotta words to sidestep around saying "I was wrong." Whatever makes you happy, though; you do you.

But the fact is it is no longer a skeleton, it's a spacesuit.  Prometheus and Alien Covenant firmly established this.  That's how it is. 

Are we still talking about authorial intent? If so, then yeah you're right. Beyond that, like you said, it's open to interpretation.
I interpret 'Alien' that the Space Jockey may not be the same as the Engineers, and there's ample on-screen and thematic evidence to support that interpretation.

[Scorpio]

Well, no, I'm not wrong because if you actually read my posts what I said was:

^And those are clearly spacesuits.

Referring to this image:



In this post:

https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/space-jockey-in-giger-hieroglypic.jpg

Which, remarkably, looks like a spacesuit..

Now compare those figures in that image to the Space Jockey concept art:



There are a number of points of reference indicating those figures wearing spacesuits in the concept art above is the same as the space jockey concept figure:

1.  The ribs
2.  The grooves around the upper arm
3.  The tube coming out of the face, in same position but in the former leads to the back more like a breathing apparatus
4.  The shape of the head
5.  The eyes
6.  The fingers

If those spacesuited figures are not the space jockey, then what are they?

(Giger has been known to introduce his own ideas and concepts, just read his books like Giger's Alien or Giger's Film Design)