Quote from: Hubbs on Jul 17, 2013, 04:55:22 AM
No actual evidence for what happened, no witnesses, doesn't matter what you think you know or what you think happened, we don't know, the man can't be put away with no evidence. The jury tried to put him away but couldn't for those reasons, nothing wrong with the verdict at all, people need to get off the race issue and grow the f**k up (just like the 'fool' mentions).
It's because Florida law is screwed up, that's why. In another (...less vigilante supporting pro-gun...) state Zimmerman would have, or should have, been charged for manslaughter.
And this is a race issue, only a reactionary individual, an "uncle tom" or a privileged/sheltered/uninformed person would claim otherwise.
Zimmerman pretty much racially profiled Martin (...unarmed, walking by himself down the street...), you can hear all that in the 911 call - he went after Martin (even though the police told him not to) because Martin was the picture of trouble in our culture - that's
structural racism right there! And then we have the anonymous juror (juror B37) who talked on CNN who made up her mind even before the trial. When the other women in the jury where in doubt she always "knew" that Zimmerman had a good heart and did what he did do defend himself and the community, she "knew" by heart that it was Zimmerman begging for mercy on those tapes... That juror is a military wife, white, living in a similar kind of gated community as where this manslaughter took place at. The other jurors said that it was this juror who pushed the verdict...
And not to forget: The authorities in Florida didn't arrest George Zimmerman until
44 days after he killed Trayvon Martin. In other words Zimmerman shooting and killing Martin was never considered a big deal.
And, like I wrote in my last post: They are going to give Zimmerman his gun back - the same gun he used to kill Travon Martin.
This would never have happened if Trayvon Martin wasn't a young black man, and we all know it even though some people desperately try to deny it but also feel like divert attention from the injustice here by blaming people for playing the "race card"...
QuoteYou are making some huge assumptions there, Martin in an area where he is not welcome? getting dirty looks? rich white area...where black people live?? someone more or less privileged? Zimmerman is a minority himself remember.
I grew up in a mostly African-American neighborhood in New York, it wasn't poor but not middle-class either. Most of my friends were black and I can tell you that I noticed how differently people looked at me when I hung out with my black friends respectively to when I hung out by myself or with non-black people. Me and my friends have been stopped from leaving the store at least three or four times - they called security because the assumed that we were shoplifting - all those times my company was black people - never happened when hanging out with white people. Since then there hasn't been a day that passes by where I haven't observed how differently people in general react to black people than to other people. Be it scared, cold or suspicious looks, stiff body language, different choice of words etc. ...So yes, in a mostly white neighborhood (where there are a few other ethnicities as well), a young black man who doesn't look preppy and Republican enough isn't welcome. He will get dirty looks despite how hard the residents try not to give him dirty looks, because it is a part of the hidden racism, embedded in our society. It's structural.
Zimmerman is a minority, yes, but he isn't a young black man. Zimmerman being a minority himself doesn't make him immune to structurally racist actions (just like a black person isn't immune to it either), because all these structures are a part of who we are as Americans as a collective, no matter the race or creed of the person. It's a part of our culture, and as long as we let cases like these pass without questioning while giving into the white privilege people who just want the rest of the groups of people to shut up, get back in line and take all the blame for their situation, things will never change, things will never get better and the structural racism hidden our system won't go away, it'll just become even more hidden, more infected and more complex.
QuoteYoung blacks mostly have themselves to blame, as the 'fool' points out in his clip. We have the same problems in the UK.
To push the blame over to young black people as a white person is just you playing on white privilege, and it is showing how little interest you have in understanding people different than yourself. By the look at your stance on this issue it seems like you have no will on trying to learn to know more about the structures of society and its culture and how it affects people differently depending on who they are as individuals but also as a group. It seems like you rather point your finger and push the blame over on other people so you don't have to do any work so you don't have to question yourself and who you are.
And the bona-fie fool (or tool) in your video is pretty much just another "uncle tom", even though he would never ever admit that to himself. He is being reactionary, catering to the white norm as a way to make himself look and feel better (i.e. self-gratification), to conform, foolishly thinking that direct racism and structural racism no longer will/does apply to him. He is basically catering to the white privilege and the white ego, which will make certain people to applaud him and tell him that he deserves a medal for it.
QuoteThat fool you speak of is getting massive support and death threats from other blacks 
Are you surprised??? Like I said, all Americans share and are a part of the same cultural structures and hierarchies, and society is getting more and more complex for every year passing by. Conflicting views and interests even within the same group, no matter how large or small it is, is a given and not surprising at all.
Nonetheless I would say that both the black people who are supporting this video hero of yours and the black people who are launching death threats at him are equally in the wrong - either uneducated or full of themselves, or both. Both the supporters and the death threat people are doing a huge disservice to black people and the struggle for true equality for all.
QuoteAre you annoyed because the You-Tube poster is black and that makes it hard to argue against him? a black man condemning his own people when most are too afraid or narrow minded to do so?.
What are you talking about? It's not hard to argument against him at all. Not at all. My entire post before this one was a long but easy argument to why he is wrong, it is just you who don't want to look at it that way because you have made up your mind that black people in general are a problem and only have themselves to blame, and that's that - no room for discussion. People who don't agree with you on this are narrow-minded race card idiots and people who do agree with you are the only ones who tell the truth, and they deserve a medal for it. No dents to the status quo and the white privilege.
QuoteAnd finally why do black Americans call themselves 'African Americans'?. Most have nothing to do with Africa, not a damn thing, you don't hear of British black people calling themselves 'African British', and many have more connections to Africa than most Americans. Its so utterly preposterous and amusing for us over here, 'African' American my arse!.
Well, it's an American thing, and I admit that it is a little silly. People here like to call themselves (?)-American, like Italian-American, Irish-American, Japanese-American, Chinese-American, African-American. There are many explanations to why this is the case, and most of them revolve around identity and faux pride. Feel free to Google it. In the case of African-Americans it is a courtesy issue, a way to acknowledge where their ancestors came from before they were brought over here as slaves by the Europeans. It's a reminder.
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Jul 17, 2013, 04:03:56 PM
The problem is not the race card, it's white privilege. You would like to think that race play's no part, but it does and as a young black man in high school, I can assure you that. People automatically start to form opinions based off of the color of my skin. Why is he in this neighborhood? He must be like the rest of them. Even if Martin lived in that neighborhood, doesn't mean everyone was welcoming of him. When I was 7 me and my cousins went to a gas station to by a snack, but because we were black the store owner came and patted us down and made us empty our pockets. We were on a trip, and this lady jumped and grabbed her child just because we walked past, and that was in a civil rights museum. Because the history of our country is founded on race, it does and will continue to play an issue. And I'm sorry, but you don't understand what it's like to be treated like you are less than someone else. You don't have to worry about getting pulled over or arrested based on race. You can be assured of the protection of law enforcement, where I must always question it and be questioned by it.
Now Zimmerman was in the car and had a gun.The police tell him to stay in the car, yet he gets out with the gun and pursues this young man. He said he was afraid, but his actions don't show that. If he was scared why would he pursue him? Why was he scared if he had the gun? He saw this young black man and had already formed an opinion about him. How is that not a race issue?
Great post
Sgt.Apone, down to the point - really said what had to be said.
Thanks for sharing your personal experiences too btw.
