Egg on Sulaco

[SM]

Prisoners?  In lock up?  Not a huge amount of room for interpretation.

[razeak]

Ok there is a system. I'm assuming an honor system though. I doubt there is any practical policy and procedure in place outside of the community aspect.


Lockup is a term that would fit what we call Segregation Housing Unit. Its a location rather than a status in our slang. The unit can be referred to as lockup or SHU. It could be that they are staying in a single, possibly fortifiable location rather than dispersed all around in say the different General Population units (there would be dozens and dozens in a 5000 inmate facility, each made up of 100 or more cells). I'm not saying this is concrete , just probable unless I missed something. If he was implying they were locked down, then he would have said I want everyone locked down(assuming the writers got common lingo correct).

If I were in a 5000 inmate facility, I would be respectful in my communication and look for ways to deal with problems where the inmate sees the benefit of the proper course of action rather than unnecessary paperwork. A gang culture is another animal, but it still deals in some level of respect, mostly. You have to earn respect whether in a small jail or big prison. The likelihood of violence just increases with the size of the facility.

I'm really getting an itch to watch Alien 3.

[Voodoo Magic]

Razeak, it's good to have an expert!

I know guns are only in play while patrolling the perimeter, but aren't guns and weapons always stored in secure armories in case of volatile situations?

[razeak]

Yes. Our armory gives me goosebumps from the perspective of enjoying guns. Never want to use them thpugh. We also have plenty of staff to handle them.

[Corporal Hicks]

Considering it seems to be a British run facility...there being no weapons in the prison isn't surprising in the slightest. We have shields and batons. That's about it.

[LV-12986]

I love the third film and I f*cking hate the egg lol.

Also hate that the Sulaco completely changes colour and the cryotubes completely change design between movies.

The cryotube change still really annoys me now :/

[razeak]

I stayed up late and watched the Alien 3 assembly cut again. I like the movie more every time I watch it. I still feel like it could be shorter. I also think Clemens was killed a little too soon. The special effects really do take away from it when it isn't a suit or puppet. The performances, score, set design, and cinematography are all top notch.

It is the perfect ending to a trilogy.

[HuDaFuK]

Hey, we all know the goal was to have a limited amount of prisoners, one Alien, and no weapons - script mission accomplished -  but we also know, you, me, or anyone without a death wish is not going to sign up to be a custodian of murderers and rapists on an honor system without some protection.   

As Hicks says, prisons over here in the UK don't have weapons and the kind of disorder that can't be handled by the staff is incredibly rare. It's probably largely a mentality thing, and the mentality of the inmates in the third film is quite clearly seen to be pretty docile - they're content to just wait out their lives there in comparative peace and harmony.

Plus, as others have pointed out, what would be the point in their rioting? I'd assume most prison riots are either a response to unfair treatment or an attempt at breaking out. The prisoners left on Fury are treated very leniently by Andrews and they've got no hope of escape because they're trapped on Fury whether Andrews is in charge or not.

The whole no guns thing really never struck me as especially far-fetched.

[Voodoo Magic]

Hey, we all know the goal was to have a limited amount of prisoners, one Alien, and no weapons - script mission accomplished -  but we also know, you, me, or anyone without a death wish is not going to sign up to be a custodian of murderers and rapists on an honor system without some protection.   

As Hicks says, prisons over here in the UK don't have weapons and the kind of disorder that can't be handled by the staff is incredibly rare.

I thought riots are on the rise in the UK due to reduced staffing? But yep, I have read the tornado squad uses riot gear: body armor, shields, helmets, batons. I wonder if tear gas is used in the UK?

So back to Alien3, if it was British run, wouldn't they have at least a weapons cache of riot gear? 

It's probably largely a mentality thing, and the mentality of the inmates in the third film is quite clearly seen to be pretty docile - they're content to just wait out their lives there in comparative peace and harmony.

Plus, as others have pointed out, what would be the point in their rioting? I'd assume most prison riots are either a response to unfair treatment or an attempt at breaking out. The prisoners left on Fury are treated very leniently by Andrews and they've got no hope of escape because they're trapped on Fury whether Andrews is in charge or not.

When some are lunatics, there doesn't have to be a point in rioting I think.

The whole no guns thing really never struck me as especially far-fetched.

That's absolutely fair.  Also I bet how one feels about it can also be influenced by region and life experiences, at least I'd assume.

It's funny, general Alien3 annoyances came up, so I mentioned this as one of mine, not realizing it would have triggered such a debate. In retrospect I should have created its own thread for it!

[HuDaFuK]

When some are lunatics, there doesn't have to be a point in rioting I think.

The inmates on Fury aren't lunatics though. They're obviously hardened criminals, but they all come across as pretty sane (with the exception of Golic, but he seems too simple to really cause trouble).

[Voodoo Magic]

When some are lunatics, there doesn't have to be a point in rioting I think.

The inmates on Fury aren't lunatics though. They're obviously hardened criminals, but they all come across as pretty sane (with the exception of Golic, but he seems too simple to really cause trouble).

Well I always felt to be a murderer or rapist your sanity is not sound to begin with. And it's always the people next door that "seemed so normal" that you'd never expect are the ones revealed to be dining on fingers and toes.

[razeak]

You would be amazed how logical most murderers and rapist are. There are many layers. Many of them may only be murderers in a specific set of circumstances such as a crime of passion, or in Clemen's case, a crime of negligence. Rapist are exhibiting power over others, but that may just be one facet of their personality. Layers.

With 3 staff, and 1 an ex-inmate, riot gear probably wouldn't be very useful vs 25 inmates in a riot situation. Especially inmates that are essentially allowed free roam of the facility (another real life reflection based on jurisdiction), free access to tools, fire axes, etc., as well as the wealth of materials available to make melee weapons. I've seen knives made from trash bags that would get the job done. There has to by a relationship besides authoritarianism for Fury to work. Andrews can still be a hardass, but he also seems like he allows Dillon to lead the inmates, and he also has to realize he has zero chance of escape if he pushes the envelope too far. It's actually a really interesting dynamic I never properly considered before. It makes the movie seem more real to me, and adds some depth that reminds me of the space truckers vibe in Alien.

[Voodoo Magic]

You would be amazed how logical most murderers and rapist are. There are many layers. Many of them may only be murderers in a specific set of circumstances such as a crime of passion, or in Clemen's case, a crime of negligence. Rapist are exhibiting power over others, but that may just be one facet of their personality. Layers.

I don't personally equate logical thought processes with sanity, and equate their lack thereof polar opposites as a rule, but I hear what you're saying.

With 3 staff, and 1 an ex-inmate, riot gear probably wouldn't be very useful vs 25 inmates in a riot situation. Especially inmates that are essentially allowed free roam of the facility (another real life reflection based on jurisdiction), free access to tools, fire axes, etc., as well as the wealth of materials available to make melee weapons. I've seen knives made from trash bags that would get the job done. There has to by a relationship besides authoritarianism for Fury to work. Andrews can still be a hardass, but he also seems like he allows Dillon to lead the inmates, and he also has to realize he has zero chance of escape if he pushes the envelope too far. It's actually a really interesting dynamic I never properly considered before. It makes the movie seem more real to me, and adds some depth that reminds me of the space truckers vibe in Alien.

It's more faith than I'd be willing to commit to that enterprise. What? There's a great employment opportunity for a Maximum Security Prison based on the Honor System?  I'll keep looking thank you. 

Thanks for your insight!

[[cancerblack]]

I stayed up late and watched the Alien 3 assembly cut again. I like the movie more every time I watch it. I still feel like it could be shorter. I also think Clemens was killed a little too soon. The special effects really do take away from it when it isn't a suit or puppet. The performances, score, set design, and cinematography are all top notch.

It is the perfect ending to a trilogy.

Agreed. Although the dodgy SFX are still the puppet, it's just composited badly into the shots.

When some are lunatics, there doesn't have to be a point in rioting I think.

I think there's a good chance the convicts would self police to an extent, if a few of them go off the rails, Dillon and the rest will bring them back in line to maintain their situation.

That's absolutely fair.  Also I bet how one feels about it can also be influenced by region and life experiences, at least I'd assume.

Very true. Us commonwwealth types seem less incredulous of it, and Razeak has added a lot of insight to the discussion. I think there's also some values based judgements about what turns someone into a violent criminal going on, to a lesser extent.

It's funny, general Alien3 annoyances came up, so I mentioned this as one of mine, not realizing it would have triggered such a debate. In retrospect I should have created its own thread for it!

This is the exact type of natural and positive derailment I mentioned the other week! I don't think there's any harm done, and the original topic is so eternal it'll steer itself back on track soon enough.

[Local Trouble]

Considering it seems to be a British run facility...there being no weapons in the prison isn't surprising in the slightest. We have shields and batons. That's about it.

Was it really British-run though?  Just because the staff was British doesn't mean much if the prison was owned and operated by the multinational Weyland-Yutani.