[SPOILERS] David: Creator...or RE-creator?

[The_Foxcatcher]

If we take the film at face value, then David is the creator of the entire Alien species in the early 22nd century CE, and the Aliens did not exist before then. But there's an alternative theory that David may actually have re-created the Alien, which was originally made by the Engineers long, long ago. Which is best? Which would we rather have?

I think David only created the 'Xenomorph' I.e. The classical Xenomorph and invented its life cycle. At the end of the Movie, we see David carrying Mini Facehugger eggs which clearly means he conceived it in the Lab.

The Xenomorph differentiates itself by its biomechanical features and an attacking jaw shaft.

The Deacon and the Neo-morph are not David's creation and they have more natural skin, conical head and different kind of internal Jaw.

I think that the Deacon, Neo-morph and Xenomorph, all possess a common DNA of the Ultramorph (the Mural creature and the true originator) which only the Engineers encountered.

We need to see this legendary Ultramorph at the end of this prequel series.

[426Buddy]

The entire point of Covenant story is to show exactly how the alien was created. Like it or loathe it, that's what they have done and that is the intention. So yes, as it stands right now David is the creator of the Alien and everything that came before from the EU is no longer relevant.

People can oppose this by pointing to the murals in Prometheus but Scott has admitted the story has changed since that time. When Prometheus was released I believe the intent was still there that the derelict had been on LV-426 for thousands of years. But that has since been retconned. The facehuggers on the mural and the painting of the xeno holding the egg are not even visible in the film if I am remebering correctly so it is a mute point anyway.

However, what Prometheus still shows is that some form of chest-bursting existed prior to David's experiments as did The Deacon. As it stands David has definitely tinkered with pre-existing things but the xeno as we know it is definitely his creation.

That's how it is until a following film decides to change it again. Suggesting David is simply replicating an eons-old Engineer recipe for the creature is just fanon in the same way people force Peter Weyland and Charles Bishop Weyland into the same timeline.

The point of the film is to explain who/what created the creature. They have now answered that. If it is just replication it renders the entire film and its story pointless.

The point of the film still stands by showing us how the aliens are created, it doesn't have to be the first time they were ever created. I don't think it would hurt the movie's themes at all. The idea that he re-creates them may be fannon but it doesn't contradict anything the film actually shows.

[gantarat]

Well,Movie pretty much it's about David Story than Xenomorph Story even he is not creator still didn't change abou it.

[That Yellow Alien]

Gonna repost this from another thread.

Rewatched Prometheus. I think it's clear with the mural and Deacon at the end that the black goo can ultimately evolve into some variation of a xenomorphic creature, the variation of which depends on the DNA involved. Both the Deacon and the Neomorphs are examples of this.

What David has done is add in specific genetic material (space wasps, Shaw's eggs presumably) over a long period of experimentation to create the traditional Xenomorph we know and love, ultimately leading to the Queen and everything. And you know what, that's kind of an interesting story, even if it's not what I would have preferred. David is clearly the main character, and following the story of the creator of the Alien is interesting. I can appreciate it for what it is. The Alien is still mostly the creation of the Engineers, David is trying to perfect it. It also allows for new variations in future films, which should be cool. I'm open minded for now.

And no, you simply can't discount Prometheus. A:C is a direct sequel to that. And when you think about the creatures and what the black goo did to people in that movie, along with the mural and the Deacon, it clearly points to a specific lifecycle (egg (Shaw's womb), facehugger (Trilobite), chestburster (Deacon)) and creature that ultimately comes about.

[EJA]

Doesn't the mural also depict eggs?

[cucuchu]

Possibly important piece to this...

To anyone that has seen the film: Does David have a drawing of the Xenomorph in his lab in the temple?

[That Yellow Alien]

Doesn't the mural also depict eggs?

Yes, even facehuggers ala Giger's original design. It may have been a minor detail in the movie, but it is focused on. It's a essentially a hint, a clue, which Prometheus does throughout the movie.

Every creature or mutation in Prometheus would become some form of "morph" given enough time. Fifield was turning to a zombie one, and the deleted version of the scene proves that.

[JokersWarPig]

I prefer to think David just found an engineer recipe to create the alien using the black goo.

This.

David should never have been the one to "create" the alien as we know it.

But...  why not?

Because it's stupid. It de-mystifies the Alien as a creature (the universe as a whole really), makes the Alien universe as a whole feel "smaller", and makes the event's of the movies set after it feel a little too convenient.
The fact it was made by David also makes it "impure" to me if we go by Ash's words.

The Alien isn't something that should have anything to do with humanity (or androids). It should be something feared, something dangerous, something not really explainable or engineered (so directly). In my perfect backstory for the aliens the engineers didn't even make them, they were found, studied, and deemed too dangerous and then they tried to destroy them and failed (hence the crashed ship in Alien). This isn't how things are though;  if anyone has to engineer the Alien as we know it I'd rather it be the engineers, either by mistake or on purpose.

[gantarat]

Possibly important piece to any of this...

To anyone that has seen the film: Does David have a drawing of the Xenomorph in his lab in the temple?

I see Facehungger pic but don't know about Xenomorph pic

ps.didn't some behind the scene pic show Fail Xenomorph model or something ?

edit. found it.

[Robopadna]

I prefer to think David just found an engineer recipe to create the alien using the black goo.

This.

David should never have been the one to "create" the alien as we know it.

But...  why not?

Because it's stupid. It de-mystifies the Alien as a creature (the universe as a whole really), makes the Alien universe as a whole feel "smaller", and makes the event's of the movies set after it feel a little too convenient.
The fact it was made by David also makes it "impure" to me if we go by Ash's words.

The Alien isn't something that should have anything to do with humanity (or androids). It should be something feared, something dangerous, something not really explainable or engineered (so directly). In my perfect backstory for the aliens the engineers didn't even make them, they were found, studied, and deemed too dangerous and then they tried to destroy them and failed (hence the crashed ship in Alien). This isn't how things are though;  if anyone has to engineer the Alien as we know it I'd rather it be the engineers, either by mistake or on purpose.

I mean the reality is they aren't all that dangerous.  the only thing making them dangerous is inexplicably dumb decisions by humans that are only there to advance the plot, or by getting it into relatively large areas to hide in with a small number of unprepared and/or unarmed people.

It is not dangerous in a larger sense of making its way to a planet and killing everything.  It would be dealt with pretty fast.  A bunch of entirely unprepared marines led by a totally inept commander killed dozens.

What are you going to do with that?  You need to end the story after Alien and never really examine it again because there isn't anything to say...  unless you can shift the focus to something else (which is what they did).

[EJA]

There's also the matter of the derelict on LV-426. Now in the original Alien, the intention was plain that it was "other", it was "unknown", it was something from outside humanity's sphere of knowledge, a fallen shard from the outer darkness of primordial space gods. If we go strictly by Covenant's version, it has to have been filled with eggs and crashed at some point after Covenant, and the dead Engineer may not even be an Engineer, which diminishes the original vision.

[Citadel]

Possibly important piece to this...

To anyone that has seen the film: Does David have a drawing of the Xenomorph in his lab in the temple?

I saw facehuggers, Paradise-related bugs and insects (which is important to note), Engineers, other Alien-like shapes. Something that resembles the deacon, perhaps.

And of course

Spoiler

Shaw.

[close]

[The_Foxcatcher]

Gonna repost this from another thread.

Rewatched Prometheus. I think it's clear with the mural and Deacon at the end that the black goo can ultimately evolve into some variation of a xenomorphic creature, the variation of which depends on the DNA involved. Both the Deacon and the Neomorphs are examples of this.

What David has done is add in specific genetic material (space wasps, Shaw's eggs presumably) over a long period of experimentation to create the traditional Xenomorph we know and love, ultimately leading to the Queen and everything. And you know what, that's kind of an interesting story, even if it's not what I would have preferred. David is clearly the main character, and following the story of the creator of the Alien is interesting. I can appreciate it for what it is. The Alien is still mostly the creation of the Engineers, David is trying to perfect it. It also allows for new variations in future films, which should be cool. I'm open minded for now.

And no, you simply can't discount Prometheus. A:C is a direct sequel to that. And when you think about the creatures and what the black goo did to people in that movie, along with the mural and the Deacon, it clearly points to a specific lifecycle (egg (Shaw's womb), facehugger (Trilobite), chestburster (Deacon)) and creature that ultimately comes about.

^This

You said it right Marshal!

[JokersWarPig]

I prefer to think David just found an engineer recipe to create the alien using the black goo.

This.

David should never have been the one to "create" the alien as we know it.

But...  why not?

Because it's stupid. It de-mystifies the Alien as a creature (the universe as a whole really), makes the Alien universe as a whole feel "smaller", and makes the event's of the movies set after it feel a little too convenient.
The fact it was made by David also makes it "impure" to me if we go by Ash's words.

The Alien isn't something that should have anything to do with humanity (or androids). It should be something feared, something dangerous, something not really explainable or engineered (so directly). In my perfect backstory for the aliens the engineers didn't even make them, they were found, studied, and deemed too dangerous and then they tried to destroy them and failed (hence the crashed ship in Alien). This isn't how things are though;  if anyone has to engineer the Alien as we know it I'd rather it be the engineers, either by mistake or on purpose.

I mean the reality is they aren't all that dangerous.  the only thing making them dangerous is inexplicably dumb decisions by humans that are only there to advance the plot, or by getting it into relatively large areas to hide in with a small number of unprepared and/or unarmed people.

It is not dangerous in a larger sense of making its way to a planet and killing everything.  It would be dealt with pretty fast.  A bunch of entirely unprepared marines led by a totally inept commander killed dozens.

What are you going to do with that?  You need to end the story after Alien and never really examine it again because there isn't anything to say...  unless you can shift the focus to something else (which is what they did).

So basically you don't want movies. If people were "smart" or put in ideal situations in movies then there would be no plot, especially in sci-fi/horror. The reason Alien and Aliens works is because they can't outright shoot them. To say the xenomorph isn't dangerous is kind of stupid, if you look at how the creatures act in Alien/Aliens you can see that they are intelligent, unless you stop an outbreak from happening before it happens you're going to have a problem on your hands.

If you say you need to end the story after Alien then you don't need to know the story before Alien. While they did shift the focus to something else, they are also making a bad/stupid decision in making David the "father" of the alien.

[TheBATMAN]

The point of the film still stands by showing us how the aliens are created, it doesn't have to be the first time they were ever created. I don't think it would hurt the movie's themes at all. The idea that he re-creates them may be fannon but it doesn't contradict anything the film actually shows.

But it contradicts what the film is trying to tell. Just as Peter Weyland was a clear retcon of the origins of Weyland Corp and Charles Bishop Weyland, but people found a way for them to co-exist because they didn't like the idea of one without the other.