Genocide in Darfur, Africa

[ShadowPred]

whatthehelleverytimeipreesspacethishappens`xc/ 0
0
`xc/land;someind;owsmed;iathingshowsup...d;.amnconspirayrap

[Master Chief]

i'mtryingtopostsomethingthatrelatestothisb utthisdamngovernment/lontrolledompdoesn'tletmeanymore

They're gonna take you out Shadowpred...best be hidin' in them shadows.. 

[ShadowPred]

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i'll
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daysseeyo.uguyslater

[Predboy]

Your acting as if this is a huge mega major event. It might sound cold-hearted but it isnt, theres been far worse and more genocides than this. Like the Armenian Genocide, and when the Turks would for no reason just attack Cyprus, these things happen all over the world, all the time, this isnt a 'Special Case', i mean if your gonna make a whole topic forthis, why not make a topic for the thousands before it? Fact of the matter is, this is no Conspiracy, just because the US isnt telling you about means nothing, they have nothing to do with it, so why do you all need to know about it? You dont. If you want to know about genocides so bad then just look them up, and stop acting like its a f**king conspiracy

Wow, Im not trying to start shit with you, and Im not going to get drawn into an arguement with you, but what your saying is like you dont give a damn about all these people that are getting killed and raped. Its a good thing to tell people about it because many dont know. The whole world promised that after the holocaust they wouldn't let another genocide happen. Its happened like 3 or 4 times already, its about time they put a stop to it. And FYI since when is a genocide not a major event, its an extermination of a people. It may not be seen as one to many people in this world but it is. Your hear talking about its not happening to you so dont worry about it. Thats one reason why so many genocides happen, becuase it doesn't affect anyone else so other people dont care. It all leads up to selfishness. Sure you dont care because its not happening to you, but if all of a sudden your country becomes a target for genocide, your going to want it to stop abviously. You will know what kind of crap the other people that faced genocide and are facing them now, are going through. This is something that makes me different from other people. I get pissed off about these things and want to do something to stop it now and stop it from ever happening again becuase so many people suffer for being what they are. Other people will only want to do something when its happenng to them. Like I said, selfishness. This needs to stop now and becuase people that act like you who dont seem to care because they're not being affected lets genocides grow. I'm not trying to say that your selfish or anything, Im just saying that your acting that way right now.

[Dachande]

Wow, Im not trying to start shit with you, and Im not going to get drawn into an arguement with you, Im just going to say that, what is wrong with you. What your saying is like you dont give a damn about all these people that are getting killed and raped. Its a good thing to tell people about it because many dont know. The whole world promised that after the holocaust they wouldn't let another genocide happen. Its happened like 3 or 4 times already, its about time they put a stop to it. And FYI since when is a genocide not a major event, its an extermination of a people. It may not be seen as one to many people in this world but it is. Your hear talking about its not happening to you so dont worry about it. Thats one reason why so many genocides happen, becuase it doesn't affect anyone else so other people dont care. It all leads up to selfishness. Sure you dont care because its not happening to you, but if all of a sudden your country becomes a target for genocide, your going to want it to stop abviously. You will know what kind of crap the other people that faced genocide and are facing them now, are going through. This is something that makes me different from other people. I get pissed off about these things and want to do something to stop it now and stop it from ever happening again becuase so many people suffer for being what they are. Other people will only want to do something when its happenng to them. Like I said, selfishness. This needs to stop now and becuase people that act like you who dont seem to care because they're not being affected lets genocides grow. I'm not trying to say that your selfish or anything, Im just saying that your acting that way right now.

Can you please point out to me where i said i didnt care? Because to all of my knowledge i never said that at all. Im just saying, your acting as if this is a huge event, when in all honesty it isnt, it doesnt affect the rest of the world. Im not saying that we should just ignore it, but in all honesty these things have happened far more than '3 or 4' times since the holocaust. There have been around 13 reported genocides since the holocaust, yet you say that our countries dont tell us about them. No they dont tell us about them, but they still try to resolve them, just without telling us, and by Genocide standards this is hardly major. 400,000 people killed, thats a lot of people but compared with the numbers of people killed in other genocides, it not huge, 2 Million people were killed in the Armenian Genocide, with 1 and a half million of them being women and children. The reason countries like the US and Europe dont send more help is because then it'll turn into yet another war. Which is what we dont need.

Also calling people selfish because they ignore it, is not what i'd call selfish, because, can you tell me what exactly, can civilians do to help. Protest? That works a lot doesnt it! People choose to ignore it, not because they dont care, but because there is next to nothing they can do to help.

Africa, is the most common place for Genocides because places like the US and Europe, they dont help because theres nothing the can do without causing huge uproar, in other nations, so all they do is send food, and first aid. People cant afford to risk another major war, and when other countries get involved in what is a conflict by 2 countries, you get a domino affect, same thing happened in World War 1. Serbia attacked Austria, Germany helps Austria, Russia helps serbia. Turkey attacks Russia and so on, same thing will happen in Africa, you attack one country, all its allies get involved, and more people die than need to.

[Predboy]

Wow, Im not trying to start shit with you, and Im not going to get drawn into an arguement with you, Im just going to say that, what is wrong with you. What your saying is like you dont give a damn about all these people that are getting killed and raped. Its a good thing to tell people about it because many dont know. The whole world promised that after the holocaust they wouldn't let another genocide happen. Its happened like 3 or 4 times already, its about time they put a stop to it. And FYI since when is a genocide not a major event, its an extermination of a people. It may not be seen as one to many people in this world but it is. Your hear talking about its not happening to you so dont worry about it. Thats one reason why so many genocides happen, becuase it doesn't affect anyone else so other people dont care. It all leads up to selfishness. Sure you dont care because its not happening to you, but if all of a sudden your country becomes a target for genocide, your going to want it to stop abviously. You will know what kind of crap the other people that faced genocide and are facing them now, are going through. This is something that makes me different from other people. I get pissed off about these things and want to do something to stop it now and stop it from ever happening again becuase so many people suffer for being what they are. Other people will only want to do something when its happenng to them. Like I said, selfishness. This needs to stop now and becuase people that act like you who dont seem to care because they're not being affected lets genocides grow. I'm not trying to say that your selfish or anything, Im just saying that your acting that way right now.

Can you please point out to me where i said i didnt care? Because to all of my knowledge i never said that at all. Im just saying, your acting as if this is a huge event, when in all honesty it isnt, it doesnt affect the rest of the world. Im not saying that we should just ignore it, but in all honesty these things have happened far more than '3 or 4' times since the holocaust. There have been around 13 reported genocides since the holocaust, yet you say that our countries dont tell us about them. No they dont tell us about them, but they still try to resolve them, just without telling us, and by Genocide standards this is hardly major. 400,000 people killed, thats a lot of people but compared with the numbers of people killed in other genocides, it not huge, 2 Million people were killed in the Armenian Genocide, with 1 and a half million of them being women and children. The reason countries like the US and Europe dont send more help is because then it'll turn into yet another war. Which is what we dont need.

Also calling people selfish because they ignore it, is not what i'd call selfish, because, can you tell me what exactly, can civilians do to help. Protest? That works a lot doesnt it! People choose to ignore it, not because they dont care, but because there is next to nothing they can do to help.

Africa, is the most common place for Genocides because places like the US and Europe, they dont help because theres nothing the can do without causing huge uproar, in other nations, so all they do is send food, and first aid. People cant afford to risk another major war, and when other countries get involved in what is a conflict by 2 countries, you get a domino affect, same thing happened in World War 1. Serbia attacked Austria, Germany helps Austria, Russia helps serbia. Turkey attacks Russia and so on, same thing will happen in Africa, you attack one country, all its allies get involved, and more people die than need to.

Like I said, Im not getting in an arguement with you, but I will say that, your post seems to show you dont care, If I said you didn't, which I probably did, then my apologies. If no one does anything about this, I'm sure the number of deaths will be far more than 2 million. Thousands are dieing every day, eventually the total deaths will pass 2 million if countries dont do anything now. Also, people choosed to ignore the holocaust becuase it wasn't happening to them. Them not doing anything to help others when in their GREATEST time of need, is the same thing as being selfish in my eyes. 1 or 2 countries against the whole world, Im sure they will back down if they know whats good for them, but I know this might not be the case hear. If other countries cant keep up to what they say then they shouldn't say they wont let genocides happen again and let it happen so many times after that. Thats what Im pissed about right now. Also, if people know about it, then they can do more to help, send some money to help give the people food and shelter and, Im not sure if this would actually work but maybe send a few weapons to the villages so the people can defend themselves. Just a thought there but if the countries dont bother to keep up to what they say then thats the least they can do so the people will have a fighting chance. Ofcaosre the only way to stop this genocide is for all the countries to realize that they said they wouldn't let this happen and since they let it happpen so many times its time to do what they said they were going to do. If all the countries do that then they have a good chance to stop this genocide. But I know that might never happen because this whole world is full of countries that say they'll do something but never do it.

[Dachande]

Thousands of people die everyday anyways, people die, and others live, its the circle of life.

Selfish would be having the power to stop all this and not doing anything about it, what help will food and shelter do if they're getting killed. Having a place to stay wont help you stay alive, it's more than likely to just attract the killers to that location. You've ignored basically 90% of what i wrote, and why people dont help. There probably arent even 2 million people in the country whee this is going on, send them weapons, thats another fine idea, start a little war in Africa, like America have done with Iraq in the past, then 10...20 years later, America can go and invade that countries they gave their weapons to in the first place.

These people dont have a fighting chance of survival anyways, most of them will die of disease, and AID's even if there wasnt people getting killed. The fact that these countries have no form of democracy or politics at all doesnt help, and people will say its the big countries responsabilities to help them, when to be quite honest, you need to let people sort out they're own problems

[The Ultimate Predator]

Your acting as if this is a huge mega major event. It might sound cold-hearted but it isnt, theres been far worse and more genocides than this. Like the Armenian Genocide, and when the Turks would for no reason just attack Cyprus, these things happen all over the world, all the time, this isnt a 'Special Case', i mean if your gonna make a whole topic forthis, why not make a topic for the thousands before it? Fact of the matter is, this is no Conspiracy, just because the US isnt telling you about means nothing, they have nothing to do with it, so why do you all need to know about it? You dont. If you want to know about genocides so bad then just look them up, and stop acting like its a f**king conspiracy

Thre isn't a conspiracy. However, this is essentially not being discussed because it costs money to sort a mess like this out (there own government is too corrupt to really do anything).

[Predboy]

Thousands of people die everyday anyways, people die, and others live, its the circle of life.

Selfish would be having the power to stop all this and not doing anything about it, what help will food and shelter do if they're getting killed. Having a place to stay wont help you stay alive, it's more than likely to just attract the killers to that location. You've ignored basically 90% of what i wrote, and why people dont help. There probably arent even 2 million people in the country whee this is going on, send them weapons, thats another fine idea, start a little war in Africa, like America have done with Iraq in the past, then 10...20 years later, America can go and invade that countries they gave their weapons to in the first place.

These people dont have a fighting chance of survival anyways, most of them will die of disease, and AID's even if there wasnt people getting killed. The fact that these countries have no form of democracy or politics at all doesnt help, and people will say its the big countries responsabilities to help them, when to be quite honest, you need to let people sort out they're own problems

Im guessing you didn't really read my post that good. And yeah, they're a bunch of people with diseases that are getting killed becuase of what they are, its not like our countries said that they wont let this happen again and they let it happen a bunch of times already, but whatever, let them die, its not like it isn't us, no skin off our asses. Well like I said, Im not getting into an arguement with you about this.

[Meathead320]

Im guessing you didn't really read my post that good. And yeah, they're a bunch of people with diseases that are getting killed becuase of what they are, its not like our countries said that they wont let this happen again and they let it happen a bunch of times already, but whatever, let them die, its not like it isn't us, no skin off our asses. Well like I said, Im not getting into an arguement with you about this.

Are you a combat-veteran?

I am.

I have had my war, I don't want another, but I honestly I feel why you want to help these people.

There are many dark truths about humanity, that is a fact, BUT the only question is what are YOU going to (or have done) do about it?

Convince a bunch of AVP fans on an internet message forum? Internet preaching will not make this move, not on this low scale.

If you happen to be a guy who wants to fight to stop this, then by all means, I think you are doing the right thing if you take action. No cause is greater than one that is taken under doing good for your fellow man.

Just keep in mind, that the reason a lot of Western countries are not doing anything about this; is that their military's are stretched as it is. The USA really does not have the numbers to do much more than they have going on in IRAQ (where I served) or Afghanistan.

Policing Darfur may be just as hazardous as Iraq, and right now the political majority is trying to halt the Iraq war, so starting another one would not likely be on their agenda.

Do not think for an instant that policing Darfur would be any easier than what has gone on in Iraq. Were are the troops going to come from?

I have maintained for a LONG TIME, that the entire Iraq situation would have been done and handled and we would be complete with rebuilding the country, if the violence could be quelled long enough for Iraq to build its own self-sustaining defense force.

So how to stop the violence long enough to let that happen? We would need 500,000 troops on the ground to do it right, and right now there are simply not enough people in the USA Military to do this, not on regular rotations, that would require a 2 million troop army, and we simply do not have that.

Not now anyway. Not with a generation of people who distrust the military, and would hate to ever serve their country. We have a population of 300,000,000+ people, and not enough will join. With the current politics no-one will consider a draft, so we are stuck trying to stop the violence in a country we invaded 4 years ago, with too small of a troop force to do it, and our current dominant political party is trying to pull us out right now.

So who is going to fly in and save the day in Darfur?

The 18-24 year old kids who refuse to join the military, and yet have the right (because of those who fought for it for them) to say that WE (who exactly is "we?") should go in and help Darfur with military force.

SO THAT is why I ask you; ARE YOU A COMBAT VETERAN?

[gameoverman]

The 18-24 year old kids who refuse to join the military, and yet have the right (because of those who fought for it for them) to say that WE (who exactly is "we?") should go in and help Darfur with military force.

You cannot "grant" rights to anyone.  You are only free to the extent you don't disobey the law and how lucky you are in escaping coercion.  Don't believe me?  Well try driving around without licence plates and you'll see how free you really are.  Tyranny is only visible to those who resist it.

We were maybe spared from a worse dictator in the west, or were we?  There is no way of knowing how history might have turned out.

[SM]

There are many dark truths about humanity, that is a fact, BUT the only question is what are YOU going to (or have done) do about it?

Convince a bunch of AVP fans on an internet message forum? Internet preaching will not make this move, not on this low scale.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

There's no conspiracy going on here - the reason the average westerner doesn't know about this is because the average westerner relies on major commercial media for their information.  Fox doesn't give a shit about Africans killing each other on the other side of the world until Americans are involved.  BBC talks about it.  CNN talks about it, but we get our feed predominantly out of the Hong Kong bureau.  I don't know whether the Atlanta feed mentions it much.  Our free-to-air media pays it scant attention.

It doesn't have any direct impact on anyone's life, and in the neverending quest for ratings and dollars, media focuses on infinitely more mundane things.

There's all sorts of horrors and nastiness going on all over the world - Zimbabwe (that's in Africa too before most of you ask), China, East Timor, etc.

[Predboy]

Im guessing you didn't really read my post that good. And yeah, they're a bunch of people with diseases that are getting killed becuase of what they are, its not like our countries said that they wont let this happen again and they let it happen a bunch of times already, but whatever, let them die, its not like it isn't us, no skin off our asses. Well like I said, Im not getting into an arguement with you about this.

Are you a combat-veteran?

I am.

I have had my war, I don't want another, but I honestly I feel why you want to help these people.

There are many dark truths about humanity, that is a fact, BUT the only question is what are YOU going to (or have done) do about it?

Convince a bunch of AVP fans on an internet message forum? Internet preaching will not make this move, not on this low scale.

If you happen to be a guy who wants to fight to stop this, then by all means, I think you are doing the right thing if you take action. No cause is greater than one that is taken under doing good for your fellow man.

Just keep in mind, that the reason a lot of Western countries are not doing anything about this; is that their military's are stretched as it is. The USA really does not have the numbers to do much more than they have going on in IRAQ (where I served) or Afghanistan.

Policing Darfur may be just as hazardous as Iraq, and right now the political majority is trying to halt the Iraq war, so starting another one would not likely be on their agenda.

Do not think for an instant that policing Darfur would be any easier than what has gone on in Iraq. Were are the troops going to come from?

I have maintained for a LONG TIME, that the entire Iraq situation would have been done and handled and we would be complete with rebuilding the country, if the violence could be quelled long enough for Iraq to build its own self-sustaining defense force.

So how to stop the violence long enough to let that happen? We would need 500,000 troops on the ground to do it right, and right now there are simply not enough people in the USA Military to do this, not on regular rotations, that would require a 2 million troop army, and we simply do not have that.

Not now anyway. Not with a generation of people who distrust the military, and would hate to ever serve their country. We have a population of 300,000,000+ people, and not enough will join. With the current politics no-one will consider a draft, so we are stuck trying to stop the violence in a country we invaded 4 years ago, with too small of a troop force to do it, and our current dominant political party is trying to pull us out right now.

So who is going to fly in and save the day in Darfur?

The 18-24 year old kids who refuse to join the military, and yet have the right (because of those who fought for it for them) to say that WE (who exactly is "we?") should go in and help Darfur with military force.

SO THAT is why I ask you; ARE YOU A COMBAT VETERAN?

I wasn't just talking about the U.S., I was talking about ALL of the countries that said they wouldn't let this crap happen again do something about it, but I can understand why you may think that I meant just the U.S. because I see my posts suggests that I was just talking about the U.S. doing something about it. And I'm not trying to convince these people to do something, because I know thats not going to do jack. Im just trying to let people know about whats going on because apparently, not many do. The main reason Im pissed right now is because many countries said that they wouldn't let another genocide happen, and, what do you know, its happened many times already, which is why Im angry now. And no, Im not a combat veteran.

[Meathead320]

I wasn't just talking about the U.S., I was talking about ALL of the countries that said they wouldn't let this crap happen again do something about it, but I can understand why you may think that I meant just the U.S. because I see my posts suggests that I was just talking about the U.S. doing something about it. And I'm not trying to convince these people to do something, because I know thats not going to do jack. Im just trying to let people know about whats going on because apparently, not many do. The main reason Im pissed right now is because many countries said that they wouldn't let another genocide happen, and, what do you know, its happened many times already, which is why Im angry now.

In a Perfect world, these things would not happen.

In a merely better world others would do something about it.

But they wont.

Keep in mind that the aggressors here are fundamentalists, they are part of a group that makes up 15% of a total world wide population of 1 billion, so that leaves about 150 million who are actively dangerous.

If some other western countries get involved, and they will need a large and long staying military force to do it, then they not only picked a fight with the fundamentalists in Darfur, but they then will have to deal with retaliation terrorist attacks on their home soil.

That is the thing about fundamentalism Islam (I am not talking about moderates, or any one who is peaceloving). They do not view one war as a separate event, but rather another front in a global Jehad.

To mess with one group that happens to be another fundamentalist Islamic movement, then the home country of the benevolent nation who aids Darfur, will soon get terrorist attacks, likely going after what is most important to them; their own Children on their home land.

This analogy sums it up easily.

Say you are on a subway, and you see a bully beating people up. You are a decent fighter, and you want to kick his ass for it. OK, but he is not the only bully, and sitting next to you is another one.

BTW in this situation, your 3 kids (hypothetically you have them, and they are under 8 years old) are with you. There is another guy sitting right by your kids who is also dangerous, and he very well is supporting the active bully.

Now in this situation, where you have far more to loose than your own dignity if your arse is kicked, will you still jump in, yet risk the safety of your own children?

Call the other countries cowards, because they are unwilling to make a very tough choice, but they do not have the military force to protect their home-fronts from the retaliation they will receive. Especially the dirty retaliation on soft-targets like children.

That is the thing the world needs to realize, they are already being bullied by an organized international Villain, by not being able to save just any one front.

Until they all band together to stop the spread of this fundamentalism movement, they will not be able to risk fighting on any one front.

They need the courage to fight it on all fronts, and for that they must put aside their differences and unite against an enemy that will threaten them all.

If they are not willing to do that, and so far they have NOT, then they can nor risk saving Darfur.

Now here is where I agree with you the most: If they do not band together and stop the source problem, then who will come to their aid when they become the next Darfur?

NO ONE.

[badass_badger]

Predboy, I want to help Darfur, hell, I want to help all of Africa, but the place is lost. It's close to impossible to make Africa a good place again. The genocide is just the icing on the cake, buddy. There's AIDS/HIV, STDs, Rebel forces fighting against corrupt goverments, it's crazy. I know you want the US and Europe to help, but it's just way to complicated, and don't forget we are coming right out of a war now, and I don't think the US is ready for another war.