Alien: Covenant Box Office Performance

[Hemi]

It's a sporadic reading a kilometre away from the Millburn and Fifield.  I don't think it's a big deal for people who aren't aware they're in a horror film.

And I'm not sure it doesn't really fit the character.  He did take off and ram the Juggeraut without warning the other security guys on board. 

Poor fellas prob thought they were going home... They were so wrong...

1. A character who does something wrong is a standard horrror movie trope.

Sure... But making it convincing that the person is making a mistake is a different kind of art. Both scientist, actors and script were not imo.

In a movie some people can act 'crazy' including scientists.

There was no indication that Fifield was getting nervous or afraid. It comes over like he suddenly rages and flips for no reason. Correction...there is a reason. Bad script    (or cut wrong)

AVPgalaxy is an enthusiast site where some people go over draft scripts in detail

Not the point, the point was from a viewers perspective. Unbiased. I know you love the deleted scene stuff, but without that information a viewer shrugs and thinks "wtf...don't touch the fcking worm...you are a scientist!". Hence why so many people online bitch about it. Viewers simply reacted negative to those parts of the movie for a reason.

And I am interested in the extra stuff, but I should not have to see those to get an explanation why Milburn is acting like a twat in his field.

* It all depends on the personal taste of the viewer.
I also understand that many people dislike "Prometheus" and that's fine with me.
- But on an Alien / Predator fan site like this, with includes the Alien franchise movies, you will find a few people who like "Prometheus" a lot.

You like what you like, but like SM and Sil point out too often.... movies make mistakes. You can try to defend those with commentary tracks or deleted scenes, but in the end the unbiased viewers judgement is clear. The two sientist are poorly written, movie is cut bad or the acting is unconvincing.

Ill say it again. I love Alien 3, but I also realise you can't defend certain parts of that movie... Fincher didn't even have a script with bad characters during shooting haha, that realisation came afterwards lol.

So I learned to nod, and simply say...you are correct SM.  (and he is...most of the time ) I still love the movie, like you love Prometheus. And thats great, cous in the end it's all about entertainment no?

[SM]

Yep.

[Salt The Fries]

For me the problem with Fifield was that he got lost in a cave he mapped out himself...

[Ingwar]

For me the problem with Fifield was that he got lost in a cave he mapped out himself...

He just released his pups. That's all. He hasn't seen scanning process because he wasn't inside Prometheus.

[BishopShouldGo]

And like that Weyland makeup OMG am I right folks??

[Salt The Fries]

It's more than that, but because he doesn't blather on it's easily missed.

this essentially. Alien uses a way more nuanced and subtle method when it comes to characterization. Its so much harder to find (pure) stereotypes for the Nostromo crew members, though its not completely impossibe obviously.

[Jonesy1974]

And like that Weyland makeup OMG am I right folks??

Huh?

[bb-15]

1. A character who does something wrong is a standard horrror movie trope.

Sure... But making it convincing that the person is making a mistake is a different kind of art. Both scientist, actors and script were not imo.

In your opinion something in "Prometheus" was not convincing. Fine.
We just have different opinions.   

In a movie some people can act 'crazy' including scientists.

There was no indication that Fifield was getting nervous or afraid. It comes over like he suddenly rages and flips for no reason. Correction...there is a reason. Bad script    (or cut wrong)

Fifield was breathing heavy when he first entered the tunnels. Imo that was a sign that he was nervous.
And it was already established in the film that Fifield was rude and has an anger management problem. Add stress to that and he had a tantrum.
The only time Fifield was relaxed was when he was stoned.

- As for what you think is "bad", we all are entitled to our personal taste.

AVPgalaxy is an enthusiast site where some people go over draft scripts in detail

Not the point, the point was from a viewers perspective. Unbiased.

- There is no such thing as an unbiased personal reaction about a film.
Each person comes to a movie with their knowledge / experiences which leads to their personal taste which is a bias. 

I know you love the deleted scene stuff, but without that information a viewer shrugs and thinks "wtf...don't touch the fcking worm...you are a scientist!". Hence why so many people online bitch about it.

- I did not need the deleted scenes to understand the argument that Milburn's specialty was with more primitive life forms. That was figured out on IMDb long before the Blu-ray came out.
- There are many people who "bitch" about lots of movies such as; "2001" and "Blade Runner".
Name your favorite film; maybe it's "The Godfather". On IMDb that has thousands of 1/10 votes. Every movie gets 1/10 votes.
- As a result, all films cannot appeal to everyone because that is impossible. For instance making all films appeal to young teenagers is not an answer.
- A movie can be made for enthusiast audiences who want to explore a film in depth.
Ridley decided to go that direction.
Some people like that. Others don't.

You didn't like that? Fine.
We can agree to disagree.

Milburn is acting like a twat in his field.

Not imo.
- Milburn was examining and maybe trying to capture an alien snake.
- In our world scientists examine and capture the most dangerous snakes in the world.
Who put the wild animals in the zoos around the world? They had to be captured.

* It all depends on the personal taste of the viewer.

You like what you like, but like SM and Sil point out too often.... movies make mistakes.

That's their opinion.
I have pointed out what I believe are mistakes either in films/scripts or with certain comments by the filmmakers.
And others have argued against my criticisms.
No one has infallible personal taste.

* And film criticism to me is not a popularity contest.
A movie rating is personal to each person.

Ill say it again. I love Alien 3, but I also realise you can't defend certain parts of that movie...

I can criticize any film.
And I can find what I think are flaws in a movie including with "Prometheus". In fact I have a "Prometheus" flaws list which I'll post if you are interested.
I just disagree about what are commonly brought up as flaws about the two scientists.

And thats great, cous in the end it's all about entertainment no?

Of course. There was this person on IMDb who loved "Manos Hands of Fate" and who gave it a 10/10.
Any well known movie on IMDb can get 10/10 ratings or 1/10 scores.
Personal taste is everyone's privilege.

[Protozoid]

Holloway isn't badly written. The drinking scene at the billiard table is the most carefully written scene in the entire film. That relationship is the most developed in the story. There were scenes written, and some filmed, that make almost all of the characters well-rounded. He just isn't likeable and the actor was a weak link in an otherwise world-class ensemble of actors. Restore Janek's monologue and he comes into focus as one of the best characters in the series. Shaw is a much more nuanced character in his first film that Ripley was after just Alien. There is a double standard at work, here. Shaw was not given four movies to develop. If she had, she might have had an amazing arc.

All of the Alien movies have characters who exist solely to make poor choices. All of them have characters who are arrogant and will be proven wrong before the end. Shaw had more of a true character arc in one movie than Ripley had in three or four. Being motherly reduced her to a female stereotype and wanting to die isn't a character arc. Sue doesn't evolve, she goes through ups and downs. She didn't fundamentally change like Shaw chose to.

People focus too much on whether characters make mistakes to judge intelligence. In the other Alien movies, wrong equals stupid or evil. That is not a legitimate reason to rank Prometheus below the others.

I'm not talking about poor decisions though, I can accept them. It's about them behaving in a manner that doesn't sit right with the character.

I agree the billiard table scene is a highlight of the film but the flaw for me is how we arrived at this scene. After being on the planet for only 5 mins and only scratching the surface of discovery this guy chucks his toys out the pram and hits the bottle like a sulky 5yr old. That's poor writing for me.

Janek at one point spots another life form on the monitor and then when it disappears basically just says sleep tight boys I'm off to bed! I mean, really? His disregard for the lost crew members well being is quite astonishing and unrealistic.

I'm not even gonna start on Shaw because we don't have enough hours in the day.

I agree the film has some great actors but the characters are so badly written they don't feel real and that's a problem IMO

I don't understand how things happening quickly equals bad writing. There are explanations for all of the behaviors for all of the characters. Holloway became a little temperamental after his line about having discovered another tomb. They may have scratched the surface archaeologically, but Holloway explicitly states that he wanted to meet his living makers. It was immediately obvious that the planet was not inhabited any longer. He started drinking after returning to the ship, which made his feelings more difficult to hide. That's what alcohol does. This happened immediately because his dreams were dashed in an instant.

Janek is unsure if he actually detected a life form, and he is powerless to do anything about it, anyway. Even a captain needs to sleep.

Prometheus has many characters and a lot of ground it covers in under two hours. That's why I cite editing as the reason the movie has trouble pleasing everyone. But of you watch the movie closely, it is very knowledgeable of psychology and provides motivations for all of the characters' behaviors. To me, of is the best Alien movie for realistic psychology, particularly when it comes to motivation. But many people dislike the characters or disagree with their decisions, which is not a legitimate basis to criticise the writing.

[windebieste]

Geologist goes to another planet - fails to pick up a single rock.  Really?  Why not..?

-Windebieste.

[SM]

Janek is unsure if he actually detected a life form, and he is powerless to do anything about it, anyway. Even a captain needs to sleep.

He wasn't sleeping.

[Hemi]

Janek is unsure if he actually detected a life form, and he is powerless to do anything about it, anyway. Even a captain needs to sleep.

He wasn't sleeping.

Write that up as just another one of those "things". He really doesn't care about any of the crew lol.

"They are lost. Fck em! Imma gonna blow up this ship anyway with most of you guys on it! Come here Vickers!"

Janek is a real ahole...

-snip-

You and I differ too much on this subject. So i'm going to stop this whole "It's my opinion" debate right here, if you don't mind.
Cous this can go on forever. 

[Jonesy1974]

Holloway isn't badly written. The drinking scene at the billiard table is the most carefully written scene in the entire film. That relationship is the most developed in the story. There were scenes written, and some filmed, that make almost all of the characters well-rounded. He just isn't likeable and the actor was a weak link in an otherwise world-class ensemble of actors. Restore Janek's monologue and he comes into focus as one of the best characters in the series. Shaw is a much more nuanced character in his first film that Ripley was after just Alien. There is a double standard at work, here. Shaw was not given four movies to develop. If she had, she might have had an amazing arc.

All of the Alien movies have characters who exist solely to make poor choices. All of them have characters who are arrogant and will be proven wrong before the end. Shaw had more of a true character arc in one movie than Ripley had in three or four. Being motherly reduced her to a female stereotype and wanting to die isn't a character arc. Sue doesn't evolve, she goes through ups and downs. She didn't fundamentally change like Shaw chose to.

People focus too much on whether characters make mistakes to judge intelligence. In the other Alien movies, wrong equals stupid or evil. That is not a legitimate reason to rank Prometheus below the others.

I'm not talking about poor decisions though, I can accept them. It's about them behaving in a manner that doesn't sit right with the character.

I agree the billiard table scene is a highlight of the film but the flaw for me is how we arrived at this scene. After being on the planet for only 5 mins and only scratching the surface of discovery this guy chucks his toys out the pram and hits the bottle like a sulky 5yr old. That's poor writing for me.

Janek at one point spots another life form on the monitor and then when it disappears basically just says sleep tight boys I'm off to bed! I mean, really? His disregard for the lost crew members well being is quite astonishing and unrealistic.

I'm not even gonna start on Shaw because we don't have enough hours in the day.

I agree the film has some great actors but the characters are so badly written they don't feel real and that's a problem IMO

I don't understand how things happening quickly equals bad writing. There are explanations for all of the behaviors for all of the characters. Holloway became a little temperamental after his line about having discovered another tomb. They may have scratched the surface archaeologically, but Holloway explicitly states that he wanted to meet his living makers. It was immediately obvious that the planet was not inhabited any longer. He started drinking after returning to the ship, which made his feelings more difficult to hide. That's what alcohol does. This happened immediately because his dreams were dashed in an instant.

Janek is unsure if he actually detected a life form, and he is powerless to do anything about it, anyway. Even a captain needs to sleep.

Prometheus has many characters and a lot of ground it covers in under two hours. That's why I cite editing as the reason the movie has trouble pleasing everyone. But of you watch the movie closely, it is very knowledgeable of psychology and provides motivations for all of the characters' behaviors. To me, of is the best Alien movie for realistic psychology, particularly when it comes to motivation. But many people dislike the characters or disagree with their decisions, which is not a legitimate basis to criticise the writing.

Thank you for the advice but I have watched the movie dozens of times and very closely I can assure you. The behavior of characters were a problem for me the first time I saw it and they still remain. When I went to see Prometheus for the first time I was totally hyped for it and then as the film unfolded I found myself continually questioning character moments, taking me out of the movie. Yes you can make excuses for behavior and fill in the gaps but they are still just excuses and this isn't down to subtlety either.

I don't believe the characters have realistic psychology or motivations, they are just thinly drawn plot devices. I am fully aware you can call the characters in Alien plot devices too, and you would be correct, but they all feel like real humans to me and the purpose of the film is very different. None of the characters in Prometheus are carefully drawn apart from David and to a lesser extent Weyland (which is why they are the only ones remaining in Covenant)

I still love the film because its strengths outway its weaknesses for me but I'm not going to deny they exist. The billiard scene is brilliant as are several other sequences, Michael Fassbender is outstanding, its visually stunning and parts of the soundtrack are great but you cant just wave away these criticisms because they didn't bother you. They bothered me and many others and unfortunately undermine a film that was very nearly a true great of the genre.

[Hemi]

I still love the film because its strengths outway its weaknesses for me but I'm not going to deny they exist. The billiard scene is brilliant as are several other sequences, Michael Fassbender is outstanding, its visually stunning and parts of the soundtrack are great but you cant just wave away these criticisms because they didn't bother you. They bothered me and many others and unfortunately undermine a film that was very nearly a true great of the genre.

I agree... but they will still wave them away m8...or find some weird convoluted explanation why the scene does work. Kinda like the movie itself lol.

[Jonesy1974]

I still love the film because its strengths outway its weaknesses for me but I'm not going to deny they exist. The billiard scene is brilliant as are several other sequences, Michael Fassbender is outstanding, its visually stunning and parts of the soundtrack are great but you cant just wave away these criticisms because they didn't bother you. They bothered me and many others and unfortunately undermine a film that was very nearly a true great of the genre.

I agree... but they will still wave them away m8...or find some weird convoluted explanation why the scene does work. Kinda like the movie itself lol.

Yep, you're right, i'm engaging in a pointless exercise and totally in the wrong thread for it to boot!