Alien Timeline Updated

[xeno_alpha_07]

I will hold my hand up and admit I shouldn't have quoted that for Ralfys attention. Stirring the pot as they say. Apologies.

[oduodu]

it makes you wonder if 2 or 3 accounts doesn't belong to one and the same person.

[Local Trouble]

I'm actually SiL and The Eighth Passenger too.

[The Cruentus]

Then dammit man, stop arguing with yourself! 

[Local Trouble]

I will hold my hand up and admit I shouldn't have quoted that for Ralfys attention. Stirring the pot as they say. Apologies.

Don't apologize.  I may call on your services again.

[kwisatz]

I kinda preferred that home cinema dude. He tended to get funnily aggressive after 2-3 posts.

Reading ralfy I tend to get aggressive myself..

No one can ever take the place of RidleyScott(77?) anyway.

Now somebody clean up SM's thread...

[ralfy]

I complained to an admin about one mod, stating that they're not supposed to participate in discussions because their functions would give them an advantage over others, and I continue to support that view.

Well, that must have endeared you to them.

Can someone find the "I have no memory of this memory" GIF please? @Local Trouble

I'm still trying to decide if I think ralfy is a troll or not.

AFAIK, a troll is someone who resorts to personal insults.

In my case, I'm not interested in doing that or even derailing this thread. I'm more interested in the finer details of the Alien timeline because I'm a fan of the franchise. And here's what I got so far given the video recently shared and that turns out to strengthen my arguments further:

Mother sends information about a distress signal to W-Y, and the latter instructs it to re-route the ship to the coordinates of the signal. Based on their contracts, the crew is supposed to investigate the latter, and if it's something that can be monetized by the company, then the crew would get a share from the profits. Later, Mother is instructed by W-Y to tell the science officer that Special Order was to be followed, i.e., the officer is to obtain the organism and others and guarantee their transport to the company, even if it means making the crew expendable.

Several implications from this:

Either the company received the coordinates from Mother or it didn't. The latter wouldn't make sense, but if the former does, then that means the company had the coordinates throughout the period depicted by the two movies and didn't them from the lifeboat flight recorder. Since it would have made no sense for the company to investigate the location throughout, and even with a colony built on the same rock, then we can only assume that for some reason the company lost all information received from Mother.

Mother was in periodic contact with the company. If so, then that would have meant that the company knew everything that was going on in the Nostromo, just like it did when the Sulaco computer provided data throughout according to Bishop in the third movie.

Did Mother provide only flight information or more? Given the point that it was literally ran the ship while the crew was in cryo-sleep, and probably even did things like monitor the condition of the crew, then it was certainly capable of doing more than just operating as a flight recorder, and likely did, just like the Sulaco computer. Given that, for us to assume that the company knew almost nothing after it ordered the crew to investigate the signal (to explain why it did nothing for decades), then Mother stopped transmitting information to W-Y right after the crew landed on the rock, or all signals were sent but not received.

He should have been banned a while ago. If you read his huge meaningless word salad posts you can see he's not discussing anything in good faith.

Just ignoring him doesnt work, someone is always going to try and have a discussion with him in good faith and then the whole thread is consumed.

You are always free to explain why my points are meaningless, and do so point-by-point as well, instead of resorting to insults.

This isn't hard to understand: the recent video shows that at least Mother had the coordinates to the signal. Why would it not send it to W-Y? Or did it and W-Y misplaced the info?

The problem isn't that people don't like him, it's that he's derailing multiple threads with his nonsense. He has no interest in actual discussion seeing as how he puts everyone on ignore. What, exactly, can he contribute to a thread about Sm's timeline website when he has SM himself on ignore?

If he wants to just hear himself ramble, perhaps he should start a blog.

If it was off-topic, then I would agree. But he's talking about the video. Whether what he's talking about has merit or not is not the question. Just ignore him and don't quote him. Hell, someone summoned him here and instigated this.

Right: I'm not topic, and I'm talking about the movie and the timeline. Why do you find that questionable?

I'm forced to ignore SM because he started picking on me and resorted to insults, with others following. If forum members stop doing that, then I'll unignore all of them and address each point.

In any event, what we're looking at in terms of the timeline is irrational activity from W-Y: it knows, then it doesn't, then it knows, then it doesn't. It cares, then doesn't care, then cares, then doesn't care again, and so on.

What I'm doing is speculating on the context of their actions in order to explain them, and the only thing I can consider is that in several cases they misplaced information and in others covered up their knowledge of the creatures.

In this case, it becomes harder to insist that they didn't care when they knew about the creatures as early as the prequels.

Maybe the prevailing feeling is that he is worth keeping around for the appearance of a more active forum. He creates a lot of activity, even if he's just a mild mannered troll and his posts are without merit.

My understanding is that there's no such thing as a "mild mannered troll." Either you're trolling or you're not. In my case, I take this seriously, and I can't help it because I'm a fan of the franchise, and that's fans do.

Given that, the difference comes in interpretation of what happened in the movies, and there are some interpretations that make sense and some that don't. I think mine do because of the prequels, several events in the three movies that can't be interpreted as based on coincidence, etc. How are those points without merit?

I will hold my hand up and admit I shouldn't have quoted that for Ralfys attention. Stirring the pot as they say. Apologies.

If you're referring to the video, then I don't see why it's wrong for me not to know it, as it reminded fans of the interaction between W-Y and Mother. But even that would not have been needed given what happened in the prequels.

[SM]

There was no interaction between WY and Mother, which is why the video made no mention of it.

[SM]

I'm forced to ignore SM because he started picking on me and resorted to insults, with others following. If forum members stop doing that, then I'll unignore all of them and address each point.

I'm not entirely sure that's true.

[oduodu]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_is_a_troll%3F

start quote

Trolling is any deliberate and intentional attempt to disrupt the reliability of Wikipedia for its editors, administrators, developers, and other people who work to create content for and help run Wikipedia. Trolling is a violation of the implicit rules of Internet social spaces and is often done to inflame or invite conflict. The label necessarily involves a value judgment made by one user about the value of another's contribution. Because of this, it is considered not to be any more useful than the judgment 'I don't agree with you' by many users, who prefer to focus on behaviors instead of on presumed intent. Trolls in the Internet sense of the word are not to be confused with large warty monsters thought to dwell under bridges, in caves, etc.

Trolls are often provoking to people. So provoking to the point that people waste their time making this article about them because they are so angry at them.

Trolling is not necessarily the same as vandalism, although vandalism may be used by trolls. A vandal may just enjoy defacing a webpage, insulting random users, or spreading some personal views inappropriately. A troll deliberately exploits tendencies of human nature or of an online community to upset people. Trolling is not exclusive to Wikipedia, as it is a behavior that manifests in many online venues.

There are many types of disruptive users that are not trolls. Reversion warriors, POV warriors, cranks, impolite users, and vocal critics of Wikipedia structures and processes are not necessarily trolls.

The basic mindset of a troll is that they are far more interested in how others react to their edits than in the usual concerns of Wikipedians: accuracy, veracity, comprehensiveness, and overall quality.


Wikipedia Founder Jimbo Wales giving a lecture on dealing with trolls

A troll who has been thrown out of Mom's house, and is waiting for her to unlock the basement door again
The basic policy regarding trolling is simple: please refrain. Rule 14 of the internet also states "Do not argue with trolls—it means that they win."

Definition of Trolling
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then Success is sure.

— Mark Twain
The nature of trolls is to slip from any definition intended to constrain their actions and to find new and innovative ways to annoy. What follows are some comments that point generally in the direction of what a troll is and what trolls do. There is no enforcement against trolls on most Wikipedia projects, as it is impossible to comprehensively define all behaviors that could be considered trolling.

Trolling is a deliberate, bad faith attempt to disrupt the editing of Wikipedia. Ignorance is not trolling. Genuine dissent is not trolling. Biased editing, even if defended aggressively, is in itself not trolling. By themselves, misguided nominations, votes, and proposed policy are not trolling. They are only trolling when they are motivated by a program of malice rather than ignorance or bias. This requires a judgment of the personal motivation for another's action. Such a judgment can never be made with anything approaching certainty. This fact should always be kept in mind when one is tempted to label someone a troll.

When you try to decide if someone is a troll, strive to assume they are not. Explain errors politely and reasonably; point them towards policies, the manual of style and relevant past discussions. Do not conclude they are a troll until they have shown complete inability or unwillingness to listen to reason or to moderate their position based upon the input of others. Even in that case, it is likely better to remain silent and let others conclude the obvious instead of calling someone a troll and creating even more mayhem. It is better to humor a troll for too long than to drive away a sincere but misguided user. Remember and apply the principles laid out at w:Wikipedia:Don't bite the newcomers.

end quote

just replace wikipedia with avpgalaxy.net

"

Do not conclude they are a troll until they have shown complete inability or unwillingness to listen to reason or to moderate their position based upon the input of others. Even in that case, it is likely better to remain silent and let others conclude the obvious instead of calling someone a troll and creating even more mayhem. It is better to humor a troll for too long than to drive away a sincere but misguided user.

"

[The Cruentus]

Well I suppose if you want to report him, you could do so for the necroposting. Some of those threads were dormant for like 6 or seven years.

The forum rules

"Forum Rules

Here's the rules:

- Be Nice & Respecful. Be nice to other members. While a forum is for debating issues, just plain insulting people will not be tolerated.

- Don't abuse the private messaging system. This includes sending unwanted messages to people. Asking them to join your forum or something similar.

- Search! If you're new, search the forum before creating any topics because a lot of the time, the subject will have already been discussed somewhere else.

- No discussion of P2P downloading/illegal streaming. This includes discussion about downloading movies, music, games, software etc. Providing links to such places is strictly not allowed. [Amendment 16/3/16: File-sharing is acceptable for discontinued Alien/Predator-related items or extremely hard to find items such as rare books/comics/games.]

- Spamming is Forbidden. Please refrain from posting meaningless threads and/or one word posts. Avoid doubleposting. Instead, edit your original post. You can doublepost if nobody has responded to it for a while and bump it back to the top. Multiple or repeated posting in order to increase your post count is not allowed. Don't post pictures as a response to something. When people start doing this, they take the topic off the rails. This is spamming and I delete any stuff like this on the spot. If you haven't got anything important to add to the topic, simple, don't post there.

- No Necroposting. Don't post in really old threads unless you have something important to say.

- Think About What You're Posting. If what you're posting is offensive, insensitive or etc, please don't post it. Use your common sense.

- Don't post offensive Pictures/Videos. This includes posting and/or linking to pictures or videos that people may find offensive. For example, posting pornography is not allowed. Also avoid posting pictures that directly insult other members.

- Spelling and Grammar. Please be careful with your spelling and grammar. This is absolutely essential. Typing in capital letters and posting incoherently is grounds for being banned. Also please note that this is an English speaking website.

- No Multiple Accounts. Each member is allowed one login account. Registering multiple accounts is not allowed. Fraudulent behaviour is not allowed. E.g. Registering another account and pretending to be somebody else. This -includes- a famous person such as a well-known actor or movie director. If you have problems activating your account, please see this page. If you have forgotten your password, simply use the Forgot Password function to create a new one.

- Avatars & Signatures. There are rules in place for avatars and signatures. Read the section below for more information.

- Advertising. Advertising your Alien/Predator website/forum is allowed but don't register here if that's your sole purpose. It's courtesy to make a few posts at least before you can advertise your site. And please, don't use the private messaging system asking people to join your forum. This is against the rules.

- Don't Post Members' Personal Info. Posting another member's personal or contact information on the forums without their consent is strictly not allowed. Also, posting content from private messages without consent is also against the forum rules, if you receive harassing or abusive PMs please report the PM.

- Movie Boards Are For Movies. Please keep references to expanded universe concepts to a minimum in the Alien/Predator movie boards. This includes discussion of female Predators or other rubbish. The boards are for discussion about the movies only.

- We reserve the right to remove offensive posts without notice.

- We also reserve the right to ban anyone who violates the forum rules. A banned user may also be banned from the rest of the site if deemed necessary.

- If you have an issue with a decision that the moderator team has made, please message the moderator or an administrator with your problem. Do not post about it publicly on the board, especially if your intent is to create trouble in wake of the incident. This will not be viewed favourably towards you. We expect our members to act like adults and handle the situation in a mature manner. Any such posts will be deleted.

- Trolling will not be tolerated here. Trolls will be banned.

- There is absolutely nothing wrong with differing opinions or disagreements. What we expect to see are people discussing their reasonings in a mature fashion. Insulting others, trolling, immature behavior in the course of these discussions aren't tolerated. They aren't interesting to read or to take part in. These are adult movies, let's ensure we act like adults.

- Death threats or wishing death on others will not be tolerated here.

- Negatively towards peoples sexual orientation is also not tolerated here.

- Do not bring your issues with other users from different Alien or Predator communities here, or try to reignite arguments from other locales here."

[Corporal Hicks]

Alright folk, enough. I think people derail these threads more talking about ralfy, then ralfy actually does himself. I'm aware of the issues around him. I'm watching him and I'm trying to determine if I think he's deliberately trying to antagonize people or not.

Now let's get back to the topic at hand and not hijack SM's thread. Thanks

[xeno_alpha_07]

Not seen it.  Just had a quick glance and it was nice of him to tell us that he was nicking Xeno Alpha and my stuff for his video before nicking it though.

Finally finished writing my own version last week.  Now editing and revising. Should run two and a half to three hours.

Might be out by this time next year but no promises.

I can not wait for your Alien 3 cut comparison video  I lost my original article years ago thanks to a save bug on blogger.  Lost quite a lot now stuff thanks to that glitch.  Any updates on the video @SM?

[SM]

Cheers mate. I think I've finished editing the script. Have to rewatch a VHS copy to double check if there are any differences and a VCD version to do the same. And then rewatch Wreckage & Rage for the 500th time. If I get time I might be able to record it this week.

[Local Trouble]

You know, you could probably get a lot more done if you'd just quit your job and focus on this stuff full time.