Jurassic Park Series

Started by War Wager, Mar 25, 2007, 10:10:16 PM

Author
Jurassic Park Series (Read 1,356,775 times)

Vertigo

Vertigo

#12075
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 16, 2015, 11:35:11 AM
Vertigo: http://nerdist.com/the-public-is-ready-to-see-dinosaurs-with-feathers/

QuoteYou won't see feathers on any dinosaur in Jurassic World. And though there are good reasons for this, the public is ready to see fluffy velociraptors and T. rex. We need to see them.

Mm. I don't like the fuzzy JW raptor photoshops, but the Alexey Monzhaley sketch looks pretty good.

I think the thing to take away, and probably the reason for the 'no-feathers' outlook in the first place, is that it's harder than the old scalies to make them look accurate, cool and menacing. Not impossible, but a dramatically increased challenge. I'm sure Crash McCreery wouldn't have any difficulty with that, but I really don't know if JW's team could have done it.

A few other accurate (ish) dromie designs that might fit the bill













[close]

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#12076
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 16, 2015, 01:29:42 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 16, 2015, 12:42:15 PM
False equivalency. Zoos are able to control what already exists. They can fully understand it. They aren't attempting to control an ecosystem that vanished millions of years ago. They can't even begin to fully grasp that.

It's not the extinct ecosystem that they lost control of though. It's purposeful sabotage of the infrastructure that keeps the animals contained. It's nothing the animals did that caused the downfall of the park. If the security hadn't failed it wouldn't have happened. Granted some unforeseen adaptation of their modified genetics would have caused some issues later on down the line but probably nothing to that scale.

It doesn't make Hammond the villain.

Park security was one aspect of it. They could never have controlled something they didn't fully understand even if that hadn't happened. How do you go about controlling a world that died out 66 million years ago? The novel expands on this greatly and it's touched on in the film with the dinosaurs breeding.

Oh, and Vertigo: I think that 'shop job is one of the better ones ;)
Also, someone posted an article on Facebook where Bakker said no-feathers was due to expense in rendering. Not sure I believe that.

Vertigo

Vertigo

#12077
I read an artist comment on that theory recently, and it's certainly prohibitively resource-intensive to render individual feathers across an entire entity, but it's pretty easy if you just model most of it as a static block, then hair-process the extremities.

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#12078
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 16, 2015, 01:42:57 PMPark security was one aspect of it. They could never have controlled something they didn't fully understand even if that hadn't happened. How do you go about controlling a world that died out 66 million years ago? The novel expands on this greatly and it's touched on in the film with the dinosaurs breeding.

Still doesn't make Hammond a villain. At worst he's misguided and over-zealous. But his intentions in the film seem perfectly benevolent.

I do remember him being a little more ambiguous in the novel though. At least, he came across as a darker character less interested in bringing joy to the world and more interested in himself.

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#12079
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 16, 2015, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 16, 2015, 01:42:57 PMPark security was one aspect of it. They could never have controlled something they didn't fully understand even if that hadn't happened. How do you go about controlling a world that died out 66 million years ago? The novel expands on this greatly and it's touched on in the film with the dinosaurs breeding.

Still doesn't make Hammond a villain. At worst he's misguided and over-zealous. But his intentions in the film seem perfectly benevolent.

I do remember him being a little more ambiguous in the novel though. At least, he came across as a darker character less interested in bringing joy to the world and more interested in himself.

I'll agree with that. Like Ludlow said, "Hammond's grasp exceeded his reach."

Keg

Keg

#12080
Quote from: Hubbs on Jun 16, 2015, 01:31:05 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 16, 2015, 01:14:23 PM
Lol.

Also, it's really nothing new for films with mediocre or even terrible reviews to make a sh*t-ton of money. Someone already mentioned the Transformers movies.

They got bad reviews ;)

Plus after the garbage that was 'Kingsman'  ::) I won't hold my breath.

Exactly and yet they still made a shit load of money. So why is it hard for you to contemplate that a long awaited and much anticipated sequel to a beloved and cherished film for a generation who may now have kids of their own and is getting decent reviews is making good money. Sure nobody it expected it to do this well but i think it was nailed on it was going to make loads of money regardless. And you keep going on about how its getting terrible reviews but it isnt. Sure there are plenty of bad reviews but theyre far out numbered by the good ones.

The Son of Paragus


x-M-x

x-M-x

#12082
They really should have called this ' Jurassic Park 4' not  Jurassic World.... it wasn't set outside of the island or around the world.... it was still in a newly formed park lol...

Seeing the Classic T-rex from the first movie was the best.

(Those scars)




Hubbs

Hubbs

#12083
Quote from: Keg on Jun 16, 2015, 02:13:29 PM
Quote from: Hubbs on Jun 16, 2015, 01:31:05 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 16, 2015, 01:14:23 PM
Lol.

Also, it's really nothing new for films with mediocre or even terrible reviews to make a sh*t-ton of money. Someone already mentioned the Transformers movies.

They got bad reviews ;)

Plus after the garbage that was 'Kingsman'  ::) I won't hold my breath.

Exactly and yet they still made a shit load of money. So why is it hard for you to contemplate that a long awaited and much anticipated sequel to a beloved and cherished film for a generation who may now have kids of their own and is getting decent reviews is making good money. Sure nobody it expected it to do this well but i think it was nailed on it was going to make loads of money regardless. And you keep going on about how its getting terrible reviews but it isnt. Sure there are plenty of bad reviews but theyre far out numbered by the good ones.

That's your reason right there, I don't think it will stand the test of time.

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#12084
Quote from: The Son of Paragus on Jun 16, 2015, 03:28:42 PM
New Jurassic World concept art

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/450899-new-jurassic-world-concept-art

I'd like to point out that two of those use the Papo Running Rex as a model.

Keg

Keg

#12085
Hubbs standing the test of time has no bearing on how much the film makes initially in cinemas and your point has been that your surprised its making this kind of money. Youre just changing what you were originally trying to say to suit whatever people are saying back to you. Its tiresome.

Hubbs

Hubbs

#12086
Quote from: Keg on Jun 16, 2015, 06:24:37 PM
Hubbs standing the test of time has no bearing on how much the film makes initially in cinemas and your point has been that your surprised its making this kind of money. Youre just changing what you were originally trying to say to suit whatever people are saying back to you. Its tiresome.

All I have said is, I am very surprised at well the movie has done, didn't see it coming at all. I'm more surprised because most reviews I've read or seen are very average. But I believe its because many folk are very nostalgic for the franchise (as mentioned) and have gone to see it mainly for that, the brand name has hooked people.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#12087
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 16, 2015, 12:42:15 PMEveryone needs a house to live in. And yes, I can fault the proprietor because he's the one who hired the engineer. He should've known what kind of service he was paying for.
...but the proprietor, being human, is not omniscient -- thus would not be realistically be able to know something's up with the engineer. It's a faulty logic going on here, both because of this and because you can give fault to an endless chain. I can fault the Costa Rican government for giving Hammond the island (should've known what kind of things he wanted to do with the island); I can blame whoever elected the Costa Rican government (should've known that they would've sold the island to yadda yadda yadda); and so on and so forth. It's utter, blatant nonsense.




Regarding the feather discussion, Vertigo is entirely correct. Not only was the feather theory not widely accepted in those times, but digital effects were at the pioneering stage, especially for A. live-action integration (meaning that the CGI effects are integrated into a real environment and thus have to be photoreal -- i.e. not TRON) and B. living things. They had to invent to do it because no one had done it before. It was not puppetry or stop-motion, techniques with generations of knowledge beforehand. CGI was new. You know what CGI had been really good at before Jurassic Park? Liquids and fluids (The Abyss and Terminator 2), small touch-ups (Alien3), and that's it.

Jurassic Park was the first film to portray fully digital living creatures in a live-action environment. Having them scaly and not feathered rendered the animation not only simpler but basically possible for the time. Had they wanted to make them feathered, they would have had to engineer specific programs to grow and animate feathers, to render and animate them convincingly, and to solve problems such as overlapping; but the truth is, they would have looked like poop no matter the effort.

Feathers are no different to fur, digital effects-wise: they are elements that react both individually and as a mass, and adhere to the body a certain way. Not only that, but light partially passes through their individual structures, creating specific appearences and making them very difficult to light without looking opaque (thus unreal). Levels of transparency and the manners in which light reacts with feathers and fur are still fields of research in digital effects!

90s attempts at fur were honest efforts, but quite awful. Relic hid them effectively by having the creature move in the darkness whenever it was digital (except the finale, but the fur had burned by then); but films like An American Werewolf in Paris aren't fondly remembered for their effects, and for good reason. Even in its time it was f**king derided for its effects. I can't even remember the first actually convincing renderings of fur and feathers (The Two Towers?) but they certainly weren't in the 90s.

The Jurassic Park digital dinosaurs still hold up (mostly) and part of the reason for that is because the only parts that need layers of transparency (eyes, teeth, certain soft tissue portions in the mouth) are never seen in big detail, or are lit a certain way to hide their flaws. Their bodies are overall bluntly opaque. Species (2 years after Jurassic Park) attempted to have a digital creature with layers of transparency, and failed miserably (to Giger himself's dismay -- there's an entire article on him dissing the digital effects of the film). So yes, it is entirely understandable that the makers of Jurassic Park's digital effects did not want further problems with their creations -- problems far too massive for pioneers like them.

Immortan Jonesy

Immortan Jonesy

#12088
Quote from: Vertigo on Jun 16, 2015, 01:34:12 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 16, 2015, 11:35:11 AM
Vertigo: http://nerdist.com/the-public-is-ready-to-see-dinosaurs-with-feathers/

QuoteYou won't see feathers on any dinosaur in Jurassic World. And though there are good reasons for this, the public is ready to see fluffy velociraptors and T. rex. We need to see them.

Mm. I don't like the fuzzy JW raptor photoshops, but the Alexey Monzhaley sketch looks pretty good.

I think the thing to take away, and probably the reason for the 'no-feathers' outlook in the first place, is that it's harder than the old scalies to make them look accurate, cool and menacing. Not impossible, but a dramatically increased challenge. I'm sure Crash McCreery wouldn't have any difficulty with that, but I really don't know if JW's team could have done it.

A few other accurate (ish) dromie designs that might fit the bill













[close]

Although the series was crap, I think some of Terra Nova's feathered dinosaurs were pretty good (although many of the creatures were fictitious species)

Spoiler




[close]

KiramidHead

KiramidHead

#12089
Quote from: Vertigo on Jun 16, 2015, 01:34:12 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jun 16, 2015, 11:35:11 AM
Vertigo: http://nerdist.com/the-public-is-ready-to-see-dinosaurs-with-feathers/

QuoteYou won't see feathers on any dinosaur in Jurassic World. And though there are good reasons for this, the public is ready to see fluffy velociraptors and T. rex. We need to see them.

Mm. I don't like the fuzzy JW raptor photoshops, but the Alexey Monzhaley sketch looks pretty good.

I think the thing to take away, and probably the reason for the 'no-feathers' outlook in the first place, is that it's harder than the old scalies to make them look accurate, cool and menacing. Not impossible, but a dramatically increased challenge. I'm sure Crash McCreery wouldn't have any difficulty with that, but I really don't know if JW's team could have done it.

A few other accurate (ish) dromie designs that might fit the bill













[close]

I think those are the first feathered dino concepts I've seen that aren't garish as hell.

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