[SPOILERS] So Covenant confirms that AvP and AvPR are not canon films.

[Frosty Venom]

"All you have to do is ignore what the films say and it all works".

Do you believe that Alien Covenant has given us the answer 100% outright on David being the sole creator and origin of all Xenomorphs ever seen in the franchise?

[SM]

If you define 'franchise' as the Alien films and Prometheus - then yes.

[Frosty Venom]

Understandable. I see how and why you've come to that conclusion.

But do you believe it has no merit when other fans believe it has been left ambiguous or may receive a minor retcon if we ever do get a third prequel film?

[SM]

No, I do not believe there is any merit in saying it is ambiguous.  It's a lie people tell themselves because they're unhappy with the way things turned out.  And if they're unhappy with how things turned out, they should engage with the things they're happy with and don't engage with the things they're unhappy with.  It's entertainment after all.  If you don't like David creating the Aliens - watch and enjoy the movies where that doesn't happen.  You are under no obligation to like something just because is has ALIEN stamped on it.

That said, to maintain that AvP and Alien can co-exist when they can't, is incorrect.

Whether it receives a retcon in the future is irrelevant to how it stands right now.  I wouldn't be unhappy if it turned out David didn't create the Alien - but, short of a major revamp once Disney gets up to speed, I don't imagine there will ever be a cinematic link between the AvP Weyland and the Prometheus Weyland.

[Frosty Venom]

I mean the Alien films have always had a lot of ambiguity behind them so I don't see what the issue is. It is very unclear about how David came about creating the Xenomorphs seen on Planet 4 and there are many hints at him being delusional so why isn't it possible that he may have gotten things wrong or may be lying? David being wrong about this would be a great reveal in a third film and would be a true downfall for him. Do you not have fun speculating and creating/hearing about theories about this universe?

I actually really like Covenant so I will continue to engage with it actually.

There doesn't need to be a cinematic link between the AVP Weyland and the Prometheus Weyland for it to still easily work.

[SM]

Yes, but as of right now, there is no link.  Quite the opposite.  The Weyland of Alien was created by Peter Weyland - not Charles Bishop Weyland.

And there were no Xenomorphs before David created them.

But this isn't something that hasn't been said ad nauseum.

[Frosty Venom]

As I've said before I see no real contradiction here. Charles inherited Weyland Industries and Peter founded Weyland Corporation. Similar name and logo. But that's simple branding.

What evidence do you have to say there were no Xenomorphs before David?

I will accept David as the creator in the current official Alien timeline when it is confirmed. Until then it is just a different way of speculating.

[The Old One]

What would seriously need to be on film to confirm Charles Bishop Weyland never existed?

Would they have to establish that Yutani built a space shuttle launch site in 1984 in Antarctica?
Which then you would claim is evidence of a cover up.
Or perhaps you'd ask for Peter Weyland's entire genealogy,
which then you'd claim has been falsified to make him look like more of a genius.
Do you need Michael Bishop's (falsified) genealogy too,
to certify that he's unrelated to the Weyland bloodline?

You're being obtuse and ridiculous.

[SM]

What evidence do you have to say there were no Xenomorphs before David?

What evidence do you have to say there were Xenomorphs before David?

We see a time period millennia ago when a planet is seeded by Engineers, we see a TED talk by Weyland in 2023, we see a time period when Weyland activated David, we see 2089 on Earth, we see 2093/4 on LV-223.  Is there a Xenomorph in any of these time periods prior to David creating them in 2104?

[Frosty Venom]

What would seriously need to be on film to confirm Charles Bishop Weyland never existed?

Would they have to establish that Yutani built a space shuttle launch site in 1984 in Antarctica?
Which then you would claim is evidence of a cover up.
Or perhaps you'd ask for Peter Weyland's entire genealogy,
which then you'd claim has been falsified to make him look like more of a genius.
Do you need Michael Bishop's (falsified) genealogy too,
to certify that he's unrelated to the Weyland bloodline?

You're being obtuse and ridiculous.

No. I'm not saying that the studio should or needs to do any of those things

Though a Peter Weyland genealogy in a book or something would be cool.

But if they were to contradict and seperate Alien and AVP on film there are many other ways it could be done with no mention of anything relating to Charles or Michael.

What evidence do you have to say there were no Xenomorphs before David?

What evidence do you have to say there were Xenomorphs before David?

We see a time period millennia ago when a planet is seeded by Engineers, we see a TED talk by Weyland in 2023, we see a time period when Weyland activated David, we see 2089 on Earth, we see 2093/4 on LV-223.  Is there a Xenomorph in any of these time periods prior to David creating them in 2104?

Prometheus & Alien Covenant: The Black Pathogen creates Xenomorph-like creatures with little to no tampering and has the ability to create Xenomorphs with tampering. The Engineers have had the Pathogen from at least 3,200,000,000 BC. Not a single member or faction of these advanced genetic engineers came upon this possibility in this time? The mural seems to be hinting at a warning or perhaps worship of this sort of lifecycle. A very Xenomorph-like creature and facehuggers are shown in this mural.

Alien & Aliens: The derelict is clearly meant to be ancient.

Comics and EU: Many examples of Xenomorphs existing long before us.

AVP: Predators have hunted Xenomorphs since at least 3000 BC


Of course Xenomorphs aren't seen in any of the time periods you mention. It wasn't until David created the Xenomorphs of Planet 4 and the Nostromo encountered the Derelict did humans encounter Xenomorphs since 2004 (AVPR). Unless you count Predator Concrete Jungle.

[The Old One]

"But if they were to contradict and separate Alien and AVP on film,
there are many other ways it could be done with no mention of anything relating to Charles or Michael."

Such as?
&
The rest of your post is pure theory and references to material that have no bearing on the Alien Canon.
As has been stated ad-nausem.

[SM]

"Xenomorph-like" correct.

Not Xenomorph on its own without the 'like' suffix.  The Engineers could've created numerous eyeless pointy headed creatures that reproduce using third party hosts - but they never created a Xenomorph.

You've answered you're own question.

[Frosty Venom]

It is also pure theory to say that David had anything to do with the derelict. Also speculation to say the Engineers never created Xenomorphs.

[SM]

No one suggested David had anything to do with the Derelict.

Your second claim requires evidence.

[Frosty Venom]

Well if David didn't have anything to do with the Derelict then he isn't the creator, no?

We currently don't know for sure if the Engineers have created Xenomorphs before or not. You're right we require evidence. But there are more clues that point towards it being that they have, in my opinion.