Bishop Did It and here's the proof ^^

Started by whiterabbit, Sep 12, 2016, 12:51:33 PM

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Bishop Did It and here's the proof ^^ (Read 9,956 times)

windebieste

Aside from Asimov's bullshit laws which are easily broken (as is often demonstrated in his stories - which was why he wrote them in the first place.) - they can be overridden.  The laws cannot cover ethical, judgemental, philosophical or other dilemmas. 

A machine is not a conscious entity.  It follows instructions.  Changing those instructions is inevitible.  I can own a refigerator capable of declaring it's incapable of hurting anyone.  That won't stop someone getting killed if it falls on them.  Those laws have very low thresholds of responsibility.

Besides.  Bishop gave the information to Ripley after she enquired at the analysis.  Bishop did not seek out the onboard consultant in the first place to do so.  Burke provided instruction to proceed with the analysis and ignored Ripley - for the very purpose he convinced her to be included in the mission in the first place. 

Remember, a machine has no moral compass - it can only do what it is told.  Bishop was following Burke's instructions as a priority.  Regardless of how safe the practice was, the mission's authority (by proxy, Ripley) was not consulted in this regard.  Should Bishop have discussed this activity first given her role aboard the Sulaco?  Absolutely.  Otherwise, what's the point of bringing Ripley along in the first place?

Did the android perform this task, responsiby.  No.   Burke would have specified to the android NOT to discuss it with Ripley. 

That's a breach of Asimov's nonsensical Laws right there because a machine can only follow instructions, in the end, Bishop is just spouting bullshit about his 'behavioural inhibitors' when it attempts to calm Ripley.

I'm looking forward to the new 'WestWorld' TV series.  I am expecting to see some very interesting investigations into the notion of 'Machines Masquerading as Men'.  The original movie was cool.  So was the recent 'Real Humans' TV show.  ...and even 'BSG's best moments were about Humanlike machines and f*cking dangerous these things can be.  'Blade Runner' performs similar examinations. 

Try telling Roy Baty how important his 'Behavioral Inhibitors' are in terms of human interaction and he'll rip yer heart out...  Speaking of which, the Terminator infiltration units are following instructions, too.  Go tell one of them about precious Asimov's bullshit Three Laws of robotics are and you'll find out it's really meaningless.

Asimov DID NOT write the Bible on robotics and ethics.  He just came up with a set of 'general rules' to follow; not a Holy set of 4 Commandments for Robots.  That's it.  Nothing more.  Mostly, his Laws are erroneous, subject to misinterpretation and being broken.  He knew that, too, which is why he wrote those stories in the first place.

-Windebieste.

SM

SM

#46
Until there is any actual evidence that Bishop was over-riding his behavioural inhibitors, the predictably voluminous raging against Asimov laws is irrelevant.

windebieste

The evidence is there.  You just choose to ignore it.    Bishop should have seeked out the Mission's Authority on the subject, Ripley.  Which the Android didn't do.  Burke would have instructed Bishop NOT to do so, for his own gains. 

Ergo, there is no limit to how much Burke could have overriden Bishop, a machine.  ...and only a machine.  It's not outside the realm of possibility, then, that Burke instructed Bishop to fetch the eggs. 

By the way, it's not raging.  I'm not angry.  lol.  You're just failing to acknowledge the value other people add to this Community.  Once again.   :P

-Windebieste.

Vermillion

Bishop 2 was a droid too.


Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#49
Quote from: windebieste on Sep 22, 2016, 02:50:52 AMErgo, there is no limit to how much Burke could have overriden Bishop, a machine.  ...and only a machine.  It's not outside the realm of possibility, then, that Burke instructed Bishop to fetch the eggs.

When Bishop left for the uplink, Burke's specimens were still alive in their stasis tubes.  Why would he order Bishop to get more?  If he did order Bishop to get more, why did he risk his neck with the Hail Mary of unleashing those specimens on Ripley and Newt?

Quote from: windebieste on Sep 22, 2016, 02:50:52 AMBy the way, it's not raging.  I'm not angry.  lol.  You're just failing to acknowledge the value other people add to this Community.  Once again.   :P

SM does that?

SM

SM

#50
QuoteBishop should have seeked out the Mission's Authority on the subject, Ripley.

Why?  (Setting aside the fact Ripley specifically told him to stay away from her.)  The mission was under military jurisdiction and the call would ultimately be down to the ranking officer.

QuoteBurke would have instructed Bishop NOT to do so, for his own gains.

Clearly not.  Burke was quite happy to cut Ripley in on the deal before she threatened to expose him.

QuoteErgo, there is no limit to how much Burke could have overriden Bishop, a machine.  ...and only a machine.  It's not outside the realm of possibility, then, that Burke instructed Bishop to fetch the eggs. 

And when there is some actual evidence of this, we'll be able to examine if it has any merit.

Rankles75

I think it's been (kind of) established that aliens won't immediately attack androids if they offer no threat, but does anyone really believe that Bishop would be allowed to stroll back to the dropship with a couple of eggs without being torn into several pieces?

SM

SM

#52
I'm not sure if it has been established.  The hugger near Bishop in the stasis room was wiggling away trying to get out and he was nearest.  Can't think of any other instances where androids have been ignored.

Call is an odd one since she was 'dead', but it's interesting to think what the Alien underwater would have made of her.  The Newborn certainly had no compunctions about tearing her a new one.

Rankles75

Quote from: SM on Sep 22, 2016, 04:14:13 AM
I'm not sure if it has been established.  The hugger near Bishop in the stasis room was wiggling away trying to get out and he was nearest.  Can't think of any other instances where androids have been ignored.

Call is an odd one since she was 'dead', but it's interesting to think what the Alien underwater would have made of her.  The Newborn certainly had no compunctions about tearing her a new one.

Thought it was mentioned in the novelisation of Aliens that Bishop encountered an alien (or aliens) on his way to the uplink? Might be wrong though, haven't read it in a long time. Either way, there's no way he would have been able to pull a stunt like that...

SM

SM

#54
Yeah Bishop theorises that since he didn't breathe or smell like a human, the Alien may have not viewed him as prey.  It may view him as a piece of machinery and if he didn't offer a threat or resistance, an android might be able to walk freely among them.  He also wonders if the Alien just lashed out blindly when it detected movement in the pipe, and when the movement didn't persist - didn't investigate further.

Not really conclusive either way.

Inverse Effect

Inverse Effect

#55
Can't Androids work along side the Aliens? The Alien in Isolation seemed not to care at all about the Working Joe's. Like others have mentioned. The Alien sees Androids as Machines rather then meat.

SM

SM

#56
Good point about the Joes.  Did one of them and an Alien ever fight in the game?

Rankles75

Quote from: Guts on Sep 22, 2016, 05:20:21 AM
Can't Androids work along side the Aliens? The Alien in Isolation seemed not to care at all about the Working Joe's. Like others have mentioned. The Alien sees Androids as Machines rather then meat.

Indeed, although I highly suspect that would be different if they offered a threat to the alien (either directly or by taking eggs)...

SM

SM

#58
Yep.

whiterabbit

Quote from: Rankles75 on Sep 22, 2016, 05:31:14 AM
Quote from: Guts on Sep 22, 2016, 05:20:21 AM
Can't Androids work along side the Aliens? The Alien in Isolation seemed not to care at all about the Working Joe's. Like others have mentioned. The Alien sees Androids as Machines rather then meat.

Indeed, although I highly suspect that would be different if they offered a threat to the alien (either directly or by taking eggs)...
Gee, I'd think having a robot spreading them eggs near humans would be welcomed as far as the aliens are concerned.

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